68-4500 HPA Tank Leaks 250psi every day |
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Bird-Dog
Member Joined: 17 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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Posted: 25 March 2007 at 10:08pm |
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_Bird-Dog_ |
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bassist11
Member Joined: 23 June 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 392 |
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how much do you shoot in a day? usually i would use more than one tank of air in a day.
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Bruce A. Frank
Platinum Member KRL Reincarnated? Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3063 |
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Do you know what a hydrostatic test is? They take the valve out of the neck of the bottle; fill it with water (thus the "hydro") then pressurize it to a prescribed level above the normal fill pressure. They measure the amount of expansion and if it does not exceed the specified amount the tank is marked as acceptable and returned to service. They are not checking for leaks. A a pinhole leak in the body of the HPA bottle would be a warning of impending cataclysmic failure. Not likely that there is such a leak unless you've been throwing darts at it. The regulator inside the bottle's valve is subject to the same failures of any external (secondary) regulator. It can be contaminated with grit and dirt particles. It can be cleaned just like external paintball regulators can. A few drops of synthetic lubricant in the fill nipple before filling will distribute lubricant into the valve regulator and may clear out any debris clogging it. There is an ever so slight chance of a leak from the threaded area, but highly unlikely. A little bit of soapy water squirted on the pin of the bottle valve and the threaded area may show a leak with bubbles. My bet is with the regulator leaking, and 250 psi per day MAY be too slow to show up with soapy water testing. If soapy water doesn't detect the leak, time to send it to a repair facility (I like Crossfire's service). |
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Bird-Dog
Member Joined: 17 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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I used soapy water on the tank but found no leak anywhere. The leak is very SLOW and I cant tell where it is coming from. Anymore suggestions? Thanks.
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_Bird-Dog_ |
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Ken Majors
Gold Member Tree? What tree? OW!!!! Dangit!!!! Joined: 02 March 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2224 |
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Please make sure that the synthetic lubricant that you choose is non-flammable. It is more than likely your fill nipple. But to be safe, you should have it professionally inspected, and repaired. We repair our own Scott SCBA tanks at my fire department. We DO NOT lubricate the internal regulator at all. It is specifically stated to USE NO OIL on all of our regulators. Although, they do use a molybdenum based lubricant at the factory. We don't "field lubricate" anything that contains pressurized air. The reason I rambled on about this is that if you use any petroleum based lubricant, it can, and most probably will, explode rather dramatically. |
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RLTW
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phil_stl
Gold Member strike 1 flaming 3/2 Joined: 01 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1421 |
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Wow... Could it be possible??
Is Bruce actually wrong for once? This would be a drastic event! And I actually made it in to see before Bruce had a chance to respond!! *Awaits patiently for Bruce...* I guess the question is... to rebuttal or simply admit defeat?!? BA BAHM BUHHHM ............ |
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RavenGuard
Gold Member Joined: 31 October 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1861 |
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OMG DONT PUT ANYTHING IN THE FILL NIPPLE PERIOD! AHHHHHHHHHHHH
....seriously, regulators on air tanks are meant to be maintanance free, if possible, you can take the regulator apart and lubricate it that way, but DO NOT put anything in the fill nipple. Perhaps non-flammable oil, though I've heard some nasty stories.... |
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Tippmann A-5
Polished Internals E-Grip Ape Board JCS Blade Trigger QEV 8" Bigshot + Apex Ricochet R-5 / Tac Cap Palmers Stabilizer 68/4500 Crossfire |
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Ken Majors
Gold Member Tree? What tree? OW!!!! Dangit!!!! Joined: 02 March 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2224 |
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He wasn't wrong at all. He was absolutely right. However, his advice could be misconstrued and/or discombobulated by the average joe. I just wanted to accentuate that if someone were to inadvertantly use the wrong lubricant, it could result in the death of that individual. No big deal really....people die everyday doing things less stupid. edit: and as for taking it apart and lubing it: Isn't the lubricant still placed under pressure once the tank is pressurized? So how would it matter how it got there? Through the nipple or put there before assembly, the wrong lubricant can be an explosive event upon pressurization. Bottomline: Send it to Crossfire (or the certified airsmith of your choice). Edited by Ken Majors - 28 March 2007 at 1:51am |
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RLTW
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Bruce A. Frank
Platinum Member KRL Reincarnated? Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3063 |
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Guys, Breathing air systems (SCUBA and the like) specify "NO OIL" specifically because you do not want any kind of lubricant aerosolized through the regulator and into your lungs. Lubricant misted into your lungs will kill you...stops air exchange in the alveoli. There is also a likelihood of toxicity from such finely misted lubricants and their increased reactivity. Now, oxygen system are a different story. Pressurized pure oxygen reacts violently with flammable lubricants. A cylinder that contains any flammable such as lubricating oil, diesel fuel or even dried paint can explode violently when the high pressure is filled. I even know of a case where a worker wearing a Scott Air Pack (in this case an oxygen system) had the oil on his face catch fire because the mask wasn't fitting tightly enough and the blow by between his face and the mask began to "rapidly oxidize" the normal skin oils on his face. Now, getting to HPA tanks. The regulators in HPA tank are no where near the quality of those found in SCUBA gear. Also there is a contamination factor with paintball field refills that does not present itself in SCUBA and oxygen filling stations. That is the fast fill nipple. Do you play without the nipple cover in place sometimes (forgot to replace it after filling)? If yes, you likely have gotten dirt/grit in your nipple that gets pushed into the tank when you refill. That dirt has no way to get out of the tank except through the regulator. It takes only a microscopic piece of grit to prevent the internal parts of the regulator from seating properly...causing a leak or a failure to regulate properly. Even if you always replace your tanks nipple cover, if the guy who filled his tank before had contamination on his tank's nipple there is a good chance the the quick connect fitting is then also contaminated. When you connect your tank that dirt goes in with the air. If this happens to an external regulator the recommendation is to apply a few drops of oil into the ASA. This cleans and helps to flush out any dirt that was causing a malfunction. There is some controversy about putting standard gun lubricating oils into the the nipple of the HPA tank. That is the only way to get lubrication into the internal neck regulator, but there is "potential" for explosion similar that of a contaminated oxygen cylinder. There are oils and greases that are non-flammable and specifically designed for oxygen systems. Most synthetic oils listed as non-flammable are suitable for non-breathing air and oxygen systems. There are several synthetic oils designed for paintball markers that fall into this category (though paintball marker lubricants are not held to the same standards as oxygen compatible oils). And lastly, I read a lot of paintball industrial news and so far I have not read about a incident of an HPA tank explosion because standard lubricants were used. There has been an incident in Europe where someone intentionally put butane or propane in an HPA tank so that when it was pressurized it exploded. Several manufacturers thus issued press releases stating that nothing flammable of any kind should be used in or around paintball pressure tanks or markers. I use a silicone based lubricant with my HPA tank. It is rated as non-flammable in oxygen systems. Got it at a welding supply store. Edited by Bruce A. Frank - 28 March 2007 at 7:52pm |
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Black_Shadow
Platinum Member Penguin-abuser from <heck> ... Joined: 10 December 2002 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 2955 |
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pwned...
and if im in your position i send it to crossfire. |
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98CP ACT
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tallen702
Moderator Group Hipster before Hipster was cool... Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: Under Your Bed Status: Offline Points: 11851 |
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as bruce said, chances are, you've got a seal (either output at the reg or input at the fill nipple) that is either degraded (cut) or has grit/dirt in it.
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<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>
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RavenGuard
Gold Member Joined: 31 October 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1861 |
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Even on HPA tanks not meant for breathing, they specifically state not to use any lubricant on the inputs of the tank. I assume the chances of causing a fire is greater during the actual fill, when the air is being compressed and gains energy. Either way, they say not to oil your fill nipple for some reason and considering we're talking about 4500psi, it could be a pretty small "if" that could cause a very big problem.
Anyways, I'd try changing your fill nipple out, and if it continues to leak, talk to crossfire. |
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Tippmann A-5
Polished Internals E-Grip Ape Board JCS Blade Trigger QEV 8" Bigshot + Apex Ricochet R-5 / Tac Cap Palmers Stabilizer 68/4500 Crossfire |
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Bruce A. Frank
Platinum Member KRL Reincarnated? Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3063 |
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The reason is the same one that produces warning tags that read "Stove hot while operating. Do not touch! Burns may result!" Rather than explain the reason and impart some knowledge, they say, "Take it to an authorized repair station." |
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RoboCop
Moderator Group Aw man, my butt is rusted... Joined: 06 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5196 |
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The easiest way to check for leaks, even extremely slow leaks is just to fill a glass with water and stick the reg side in. I used to have a leak of about 50 psi a day. It was coming from my burst disk where it screws onto the reg. THe water won't hurt anything because everything is closed up.
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Bird-Dog
Member Joined: 17 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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OK, ill try that out too. Thanks for all the replies.
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_Bird-Dog_ |
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