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Grand Jury Clears Texan in the Killing...

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Pariel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:01pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/us/01texas.html?_r=1&oref= slogin

Quote Grand Jury Clears Texan in the Killing of 2 Burglars

HOUSTON — A grand jury on Monday refused to indict a 62-year-old man who fatally shot two burglars last November as they fled his neighbor’s house.
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Joe Horn

In a case that raised questions of ethnic bias, self-defense and property rights, the jury rejected charges against the man, Joe Horn, who is white. Both victims were illegal immigrants from Colombia.

“Joe is not some wild cowboy,” Mr. Horn’s lawyer, Charles T. Lambright, said at a news conference on Monday. “He was put in a place where he didn’t have any other choice.”

But others reacted angrily to the decision. “There is not a snowflake’s chance in hell that an African-American man could do what Joe Horn did and get away with it,” said Quanell X, a local black activist. “The message that Harris County sent to the entire world is that Houston, Tex., is God’s city. There is no longer a need for the criminal justice system, police, judge or jury. You can be all of that on your own.”

Mr. Horn, a retired computer manager who testified before the grand jury, called 911 on Nov. 14, saying two men were burglarizing his neighbor’s house in Pasadena, a Houston suburb. He described the men as black.

“I’m not going to let them get away with it,” he told the emergency operator. “I’m going to shoot.” He added, “I’m going to kill them.”

The operator repeatedly told Mr. Horn not to shoot, and the police had just arrived at the scene when Mr. Horn fired three blasts of 00 buckshot from his 12-gauge, striking the men in their backs.

The men — Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30 — ran short distances before collapsing and dying, leaving behind a tire iron used to break a window and a pillowcase holding jewelry and about $2,000 from the neighbors.

Many questions went unanswered, including the events that transpired before Mr. Horn told the operator, “I had no choice,” adding, “Man, they came running in my yard.”

The Texas Penal Code allows the use of deadly force if the “actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary.” Deadly force can also be used to protect property when “the other is fleeing immediately after committing burglary.”

One lawyer, while endorsing the grand jury’s decision, raised questions about the process.

“I wonder if Joe Horn were black if he would be free tonight or in the Harris County Jail,” said the lawyer, Joseph Gutheinz Jr., of the National Republican Lawyers Association. “It’s a sea of white faces that doesn’t look anything like the county,” Mr. Gutheinz said.

In a news release, District Attorney Kenneth Magidson of Harris County said the grand jury had “conducted a thorough review of the evidence and testimony” and noted that every case involving deadly force “stands or falls on its own particular facts.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:06pm
burglars got what they deserved, however im a little fuzzy on one thing, he was on the phone WITH the operator when he shot them b/c they were running through HIS yard after the burglary, hell i'd shoot em if they ran through my yard, he made the right decision IMO especially if they were running through his yard. thats what you call "free game"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Ace_Of_Spades Ace_Of_Spades wrote:

burglars got what they deserved, however im a little fuzzy on one thing, he was on the phone WITH the operator when he shot them b/c they were running through HIS yard after the burglary, hell i'd shoot em if they ran through my yard, he made the right decision IMO especially if they were running through his yard. thats what you call "free game"


Murder...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ace_Of_Spades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:09pm
well what would you do, if you had a shotgun and you see burglars running through your yard and you dont know if they are armed yet you just saw them rob the house right next tou you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:13pm
Meh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Hui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:35pm
lol...

Someone find the link for the 911 call...it was amazing

Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:39pm
Well, that sets up a not-so-good precedent...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evil Elvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2008 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by Da Hui Da Hui wrote:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 1:33am
Sigh.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 1:39am
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Well, that sets up a not-so-good precedent...


I tend to agree.

I am not quite so comfortable with the idea that in a situation where the burglars are of no harm to you or your property, and someone under the umbrella of law enforcement is telling you not to shoot them, that you can shoot them anyway and not be convicted.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 1:54am
I heard the entire phone call. From my understanding, apart from the ability to throw loot, they had no potential to harm anybody. The only reason lethal force can ever be justified is perceived or actual threat to life. The guy clearly acknowledges they are running away and chases after them. It should be a murder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heres To You Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 7:53am
Conservative America - 

Liberal America -

/thread
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 8:55am
They should know not to burglarize a house in Texas...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 9:17am


Originally posted by The New York Times The New York Times wrote:

Grand Jury Clears Texan in the Killing of 2 Burglars


The Texas Penal Code allows the use of deadly force if the “actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary.” Deadly force can also be used to protect property when “the other is fleeing immediately after committing burglary.”

Well, technically he's in the right, but still a nut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 9:46am

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Well, that sets up a not-so-good precedent...


I tend to agree.

I am not quite so comfortable with the idea that in a situation where the burglars are of no harm to you or your property, and someone under the umbrella of law enforcement is telling you not to shoot them, that you can shoot them anyway and not be convicted.

Agreed. Now any person who has a wild hair up their ass can shoot someone and say they were robbing you...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 12:35pm
Major facepalm for this state. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Heres To You Heres To You wrote:

Conservative America - Liberal America - /thread


Not so much.

I'm Conservative, and while I tend to like the castle doctrine, this case in particular can not end well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .357 Magnum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 1:15pm
Glad he wasn't charged.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pb125 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2008 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Heres To You Heres To You wrote:

Conservative America - 

Liberal America -

/thread


What the hell are you even talking about?
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