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Here's one for you guys to debate

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Reb Cpl View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 January 2011 at 12:20pm
http://www.fultonsun.com/news/2011/jan/10/twain-tweeking-receives-mixed-reaction-callaway/

Basically, "Huckleberry Finn" is being revamped to remove all racial language so that it isn't offensive to anyone.

Personally, I think this move is akin to denying that there was ever a mindset out there that believed that language and behavior of this sort was appropriate. Classic literature gives us a shot at understanding the people that came before us- and to remove pieces of it that don't jive with you doesn't do it, or your own ancestors justice.




Edited by Reb Cpl - 10 January 2011 at 12:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 12:39pm
That's a ridiculous idea that completely removes the historical aspect of the book.  Lighten up, people.  Things weren't always as P.C. as they are now.  Pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 12:56pm
Wake up, people!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 1:01pm
I hate political correctness in general- this is pure bull.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

I hate political correctness in general- this is pure bull.


I think that the large issue is political correctness being a mis-used application.

to me 'politically correct' shouldn't mean anything more than a public official shying away from language that's offensive or controversial, since they're supposed to represent their (hopefully) diverse constituents.

But making a move to mainstream PC is where you run into trouble, because to not offend someone, you're inevitably doing exactly that to someone else.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 1:21pm
Yup. What's next- remove 'The White Man's Burden' from Kipling anthologies?
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 1:56pm
To remove the language is to remove the connotations and context of the time in which the story is set, let alone when it was written. Huck Finn without the ever present and outright show of racism and bigotry by many of the characters takes what is, in its own right, an outstanding piece of abolitionist literature and turns it into something resembling a Hardy Boys' adventure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 2:02pm
This is completely ridiculous-if you removed everything that's offensive to everyone, you'd lost most of the powerful impact that literature has. Is it an offensive word? Sure. Should it be a part of out children's education? Nope. But you can't just put your fingers in your ears and pretend it never happened.

Part of what makes literature from that era so important is the window it provides into a different era.

Besides, the 'n-word' and 'slave' mean two completely different things, I don't even see how this is going to work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 2:13pm
I guess I'm most confused by the decision because of the fact that the book didn't make racism, nor slavery, look good. The "N-word" was used to show the callousness and hate that came along with slavery and judgment of people based on skin color.

The only reason I can sort of see this being acceptable is if it was a version of the book intended for reading by a very young audience, and even then it's questionable at best as to why that age group should be reading it to start with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 3:12pm
Neato, why did you pick an article written in almost my home town.

I've had a drunk friend pee on that newspaper building. hahahaha. Brother even used to work there.

As for the idea itself, it takes the time period out of the book and changes it in a way that I feel spits in Samuel Clemens face.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 3:12pm
I think we read HF in middle school if I remember correctly, but honestly don't remember the N word being used in it . While I am in general against censoring art, I can sort of see where they are coming from. If I was a minority, would I want to be forced to read, as part of my curriculum a book where people of my race are referred to in derogatory manner? Probably not. Hoever, it must be equally as odd to read a book where people of my race are still portrayed as slaves. What's worse, editing the book or banning it from public schools due to it's racist overtones?
 
I also read where the term "Injun" is going to be edited out as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

What's worse, editing the book or banning it from public schools due to it's racist overtones?
 


I can completely empathize with the motivation to remove the words from the book. I may not agree with the cause, but I also don't think that it's being done out of any maliciousness directed to Twain or literature in general.

I'm coming from the background of having read the book in my junior year of high school, and having to write an analysis describing if we thought Twain was trying to write against slavery, and if so, if it was successful or not in the ways the characters are utilized.

Which, I think, is a valid way of teaching literary analysis.

Then again, I'm not black. So I cannot begin to pretend what it's like to be black and read this in a literature or English class.


Edited by agentwhale007 - 10 January 2011 at 3:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2011 at 4:09pm
I don't know why the debate even exists, Family Guy showed how silly this argument is several years ago:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2011 at 1:41am
I blame the liberals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2011 at 2:37am
I've got mixed feelings about this. My senior English teacher back in high school also taught a couple freshman English classes. In one of those classes they were reading To Kill a Mockingbird aloud. He called on a random person to read a few pages at a time. Apparently a white student was reading to the class and, as instructed, he read the text verbatim. After he read a line that included the n-word a black student jumped up and beat the crap out of him. It was rather shocking that afternoon when I strolled in for class and saw the end of the chalk board had been cleaned thoroughly directly above blood-stained carpet.

I understand what they're trying to accomplish here by editing the text. I don't feel this is the correct way to solve a broader problem, over-sensitive people.

Originally posted by Reb Reb wrote:

Personally, I think this move is akin to denying that there was ever a mindset out there that believed that language and behavior of this sort was appropriate. Classic literature gives us a shot at understanding the people that came before us- and to remove pieces of it that don't jive with you doesn't do it, or your own ancestors justice.

I agree, but it isn't like Huck Finn is the only example of that time in history. My US History classes certainly didn't cite Huck Finn.

Best scenario IMO would be to make both versions available and let the students decide which they're comfortable reading. Surely most would choose the unedited text anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2011 at 7:33am
HV, all excellent points to be sure:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

I've got mixed feelings about this. My senior English teacher back in high school also taught a couple freshman English classes. In one of those classes they were reading To Kill a Mockingbird aloud. He called on a random person to read a few pages at a time. Apparently a white student was reading to the class and, as instructed, he read the text verbatim. After he read a line that included the n-word a black student jumped up and beat the crap out of him. It was rather shocking that afternoon when I strolled in for class and saw the end of the chalk board had been cleaned thoroughly directly above blood-stained carpet.

I understand what they're trying to accomplish here by editing the text. I don't feel this is the correct way to solve a broader problem, over-sensitive people.

This sort of thing sits on the shoulders of teachers. They need to be aware of what's being presented in class, and make sure that the students know what's contained in the books they're assigning. This way they can gauge the possible reactions (over reactions in this case) to anything. Its really their duty to make sure this doesn't happen through proper education on the subject matter.

Originally posted by Reb Reb wrote:

Personally, I think this move is akin to denying that there was ever a mindset out there that believed that language and behavior of this sort was appropriate. Classic literature gives us a shot at understanding the people that came before us- and to remove pieces of it that don't jive with you doesn't do it, or your own ancestors justice.

I agree, but it isn't like Huck Finn is the only example of that time in history. My US History classes certainly didn't cite Huck Finn.

English and literature classes are as much of a legitimate venue for learning history as any social studies class.....at least it should be. When I was going through training, we learned about 'inter-disciplinary education' where teachers in different fields would be responsible for making not of the relevancy that their material has in other subjects, in an effort to tie everything up in a nice neat package. So while Huck Finn isn't exactly a text you'd find in a history class, its relevancy to U.S. history is just as pertinent, and should be billed as such to avoid such conflict as you described above.

Best scenario IMO would be to make both versions available and let the students decide which they're comfortable reading. Surely most would choose the unedited text anyway.

I could agree with this I think. Because, like you said, there isn't any fix to over-sensitive people. This would at least serve as an appeasement to some of them while upholding the integrity of classic literature.


I just don't think that people should erase history, whether its found in history books or works of fiction, in an effort to clean things up. The past is dirty. If we all see and understand that, we are more apt to clean up today.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2011 at 7:49am

So being a black student and not wanting to read a book where black people are referred to as "N's" is over-sensitive?

I do wonder though how pervasive was the term in the day. Will sometime in the future any book referring to African Americans as "black" be edited out?

Edited by oldpbnoob - 11 January 2011 at 7:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2011 at 9:31am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

So being a black student and not wanting to read a book where black people are referred to as "N's" is over-sensitive?

I do wonder though how pervasive was the term in the day. Will sometime in the future any book referring to African Americans as "black" be edited out?


Undereducation on matters can lead to oversensitivity. Without the proper context being presented, I can completely understand someone taking offense.

In retrospect however, its the sanitizing of texts and history which is leading to the oversensitivity in the first place, since 'they' can't get it all.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2011 at 9:52am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

So being a black student and not wanting to read a book where black people are referred to as "N's" is over-sensitive?

I do wonder though how pervasive was the term in the day. Will sometime in the future any book referring to African Americans as "black" be edited out?


Undereducation on matters can lead to oversensitivity. Without the proper context being presented, I can completely understand someone taking offense.

In retrospect however, its the sanitizing of texts and history which is leading to the oversensitivity in the first place, since 'they' can't get it all.


I guess since neither of us is African American and can't really state from experience as to whether this would be offensive to even a highly educated person of color, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Of course I am like 1/12th Native American and I really don't find the term "injun" all that offensive, so maybe you're right. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2011 at 1:00pm
Not sure how it was in yalls school, but ours, if you were offended or potentially upset by a required literature you were given the option of another book.
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