I am a cheap guy

i take it ur talking about HPA tank, and yes you can, HPA works on all guns, and if the gun is setup right u can gain alot more better performace out of ur tank and gun. but let alone its better then c02 anyday.

HPA is better because,

1. Cleaner, when u clean ur gun after using hpa, u will notice no black crap in it, which is from c02.

2. Better for your regulators, even tho tippmanns do not have them, and if ur gun has pnems (cocker), u do not want to get c02 in ur solonoid or u can throw 400 out the window on a eblade.

3. Cheaper to fill, well where i play its free. and u can top off with out emptyin the tank, and u can fill with out removing the tank from gun, and you will get better performace out of ur marker if u get the right internals, what u want is internals that are for major Low pressure, and low pressure is alot better, try to get as low as a pressure u can, that way u save air, and ur gun is smoother, and make sure u get a high pressure tank when running lp.

Mike.

HPA beats the sh*% out of C02 any day. 

1. HPA is indeed much cleaner.

2. You always know how much air you have left in your tank.

3. It is not affected by weather.

4. It fills alot quicker so you can spend less time getting your tank filled and more time playing.

5. It is a very stable gas that is stored as a gas opposed to C02, meaning that your consistency will be much greater.

6. It does not damage o-rings as much.

7. Your shots will not loose velocity as your tank approaches the "100 shots left" mark.

8.  It is a constant pressure example - 850 psi output.  C02's output pressure varies with weather and how full the tank is.

Edited by Keithypoo

DrunkDriver , you have a good point , and prolly the most Valid reason for considering converting any gun to HPA ,,, but ,, it isnt a cure all as some would suggest .

1. Yes with HPA there is no possibility of liquid feeding into a marker's internals , Tippmann is the only manufacturer that can build valves that can handle liquid CO2 , consistently , and fairly well ?!?  doubt it , but prolly one of the few that does . I dont necessarily consider haveing a  $1500.00 marker with internals so delicate that they cant handle an occasional slug of liquid , a Sign of a "Better ,or Higher Quality" marker .

2. HPA isnt as clean as you might think either , it is the same gasses that are found in our atmosphere , oxygen , hydrogen , nitrogen , Carbon Dioxide , carbon Monoxide , and many others ,including gaseous vapors of compounds found in sometimes not so minor quantities , corrosives as oxides of nitrogen (compounds formed from reactions with "acid rain" radicals ) sulphur compounds , Etc . CO2 is a pure gas and IS reactive with moisture (it forms Carbonic acid , the same thing that gives sodapop its "Bite" when you chug a Dew or Coke ). The Damage most caused by liquid CO2 getting into internals is the effect of the liquid "washing" the lubricants off of the O-Rings , and then them running Dry , liquids tend to do that,,,

3. CO2's Pressure is affected by its temperature ONLY , at ANY level of liquid remaining in the tank ,its output pressure will be the SAME !! (assuming the temperature remains the same , and it will vary some , at high rates of fire ) the pressure drops experienced with CO2 are because of the liquid refrigerant properties , and the cooling effects of a liquid , as it expands into a gas . it will evaporate and cool the remaining liquid , this pressure/temperature relationship is well documented as liquid/vapor Phase and pressure drops can be easily found from any industrial gas company ,or physics information source if you want the exact curves relating to CO2's characteristics . At normal room temperatures +/- 70 Deg F , CO2 has a pressure of around 750-800 PSI , give or take , at 32 Degrees F , its still like at 600 PSI or above slightly , Quite sufficient for most markers , at approaching 100 Deg F , Its static pressure increases to around 1300 PSI , Give or take . It takes a Dramatic increase/decrease in temp to significantly change the pressure of CO2 . and Yes a total Variation of , what,, 700 PSI is quite significant , but how many of us have ever played in temperatures that varied that much in one session , , even one week for that matter ??

4. Somebody mentioned the Economy of shooting HPA over CO2 , well ,, if your HPA is free , I would unhesitatingly agree with that , but consider this , A 12 Oz CO2 tank costs roughly $20.00 , fill costs will vary , but in my area it is $2.00 to fill it , I get around 900-1000 shots out of a fill , sometimes 800 if I slug a lot of liquid . HPA tanks run from ,, what $70.00 on up to in excess of $200 ? (help me out here , I never seriously priced one ) Midrange then  $145.00 ? Assuming fills were Half the cost of CO2 , for HPA ,, how long would it take to hit the break even point in converting to HPA ? Do the Math ..

Another Factor that many overlook ,is the bulk/weight of an HPA tank Vs. a CO2 tank ,of roughly the same "Shot " Capacity , for arguements sake , lets go with the 12 Oz CO2 tank , and 900 shots , what size C.I. and pressure would you have to get to equal the same capacity , and what would its weight be ?? even with a Carbon wrapped tank , its a Significantly larger/ Bulkier Signature to get hit .

 

I am not Pro , or Con , for HPA , but Many factors need to be considered before making a Purchase , and an informed decision should be part of the process , Not a Blind Assumption . There are some benefits in using HPA ,in some circumstances , mostly minor ,in my opinion . If you are a Tournament player, and thousands of dollars of prizemoney and sponsorships hang on the advantages that HPA might get you , then by all means , GO FOR IT !! If you got money thats Burning a Hole in your pocket , and you just gotta Have it , because everybody else has it , then by all means , GO FOR IT !! but the benefits arent that Uber...

cockerkilla99 wrote: Better for your regulators

Never, in 7 years of playing paintball, have I heard of a regulator (any) being damaged by co2. Ever.

Keithypoo wrote: You always know how much air you have left in your tank.

Not really. Yeah those nifty little gauges on your tank are nice, but aren't even CLOSE to accurate. I've known some to be off as much as 700-800psi.

Keithypoo wrote: It fills alot quicker so you can spend less time getting your tank filled and more time playing.

Yes, that is true. Only because most fields "flash fill", meaning that they push (for example) 68 cubic inches of air at 4500psi into a thin aluminum shell with a glued on carbon fiber wrapping in mere seconds.

Ever wonder why your tank was hot after it was filled? It's because there's a huge amount of fricion caused by that much air being forced into a small space in such a small amount of time.

Numerous flash fills can loosen the glue that holds the carbon fiber wrapping on, and can weaken the inner aluminum shell from being flexed each time it has been flash filled.

Keithypoo wrote: Your shots will not loose velocity as your tank approaches the "100 shots left" mark.

Huh? I think you got that backwards. The pressure of a co2 tank doesn't change until the tank is practically empty. This is why it's uneconomical to put a gauge on a co2 tank.

An HPA tank on the other hand, slowly looses pressure as the tank is emptied, which will make that shots near the end of the tank a much slower velocity than the shots when the tank was full.


As for the price. Co2 tanks now days are a dime-a-dozen. I could find a 16 or 20oz tank for $15-20 NEW. A cheap HPA tank runs at least $90. The fills are cheaper where I live also. It costs $4 to fill a 3000psi tank, $6 to fill a 4500, and $8 to fill a 5000. Co2 fills range from $3-$6.

But if fitting in with the paintball crowd matters to you, then go ahead and spend $300 on an HPA system.

I’ll stick with co2.

Im a chemistry teacher at a highschool here, and in noo way iis HPA
cleaner than co2. co2 is what you exhale, HPA iis whhat thhey uuse for
FERTILIZER. you need to take my remedial course iif you think
otherwise...

hey shadowminnion yes you made a good argument about the "how can a better marker not handel co2" but do you put regular gas in your porsche do you? well you shouldnt. with high end cars they require a higher grade of gas, performance reasons. would it not be true for paintball? if you are going to spend 600+ for a high end gun why not put an extra 150 and get a better air system

 

ohh yes and when you say comp air is not as clean as you think it is, i must say you are wrong. i get my tank filled at my dive shop, i get them filled free if i might add, i am a member. they send all the air that goes into any tank though 3, 4 foot long air filters. PADI, one of the top dive lisense companys, only requires the air to be sent though 1 filter. when i surface after a dive and take a breath of "fresh air" its tasts dirty. the real freash air is in the tank, its much cleaner. ohh also there is absolutly no moisture in the tank, dont have to worry about any oil getting washed off

also when you say comp air is effected by temperature changes you are 1/2 correct. i will agree that there might be some kind of pressure change but it will not affect the gun at all (not a cocker at least). the low pressure reg converts the air down to 400-450 i think anyways.

the little extra weight added by the HPA tank balances out a full hopper perfectly. if i hold my grip on my autococker it is perfectly balanced. i would rather have a back heavy gun then a front heavy one any way. it a lot easier to control. also dont you use your tank as a stock? isnt the "extra" weight on your sholder anyway?

glassjaw, good point. i could use my compresser to fill my tank, considering it can go up to 6800 psi and i have the proper attachments from my welding tanks

Edited by DrunkDriver

well, youre right, iits not fertilizer, but iis is used too put fertilizer into
the ground in some cases, depending on what youre raising

i dont know where you found a 4500 psi compressor but it must have cost you a fortune. i will stay with a mix of nirto and co2 thank you hpa is just soo not worth the cost. all you need to di is fill the tank at the Temp that you will play at and you will be fine.

Edited by Robert_Hawker

Ok, I skipped all that rhetoric because this is a real simple issue. A stock 98 will not perform any better on air than CO2. So there really is no viable reason to get it. However, HPA is compatible with just about any gun so it is a good choice for its versatility.