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GOP: God’s Own Party

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goodsmitty View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 April 2005 at 11:12am
I think the church movement is in for a big surprise....  
 
 
Published on Thursday, March 31, 2005 by the Guardian/UK
Bush is Hostage to Religious Right, Says Top Republican
by Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
 

One of the most respected figures in the Republican political establishment turned on his own party yesterday, accusing the leadership of falling hostage to the religious right.

In an opinion piece in yesterday's New York Times, John Danforth, a former senator and US ambassador to the United Nations, writes: "Republicans have transformed our party into the political arm of conservative Christians."

Mr Danforth's credentials in the party, as a three-term senator from Missouri's heartland and as the minister chosen by Ronald Reagan to officiate at his state funeral in June 2004, are well established.

His broadside against the party's rightward shift in recent years appeared to crystallise growing unease over the increasingly political nature of religion in public life in the US - prompted by the public feud over the fate of Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged woman who spent her 13th day without food or water in a hospice following the removal of her feeding tube. That affair has split the US right, and in recent days Republicans have tried to distance themselves from the controversy because of negative public reaction.

The Terri Schiavo affair has opened faultlines on the other side of the political divide. On Tuesday, the Reverend Jesse Jackson confounded fellow Democrats by flying to Florida and joining the vigil outside the hospice where Ms Schiavo lies dying. "We cannot hide behind the law and not have mercy," Mr Jackson said.

However, a CBS television poll last week found 82% of Americans opposed to efforts by George Bush and Congress to intervene to prolong Ms Schiavo's life against the express wishes of her husband.

In his article, Mr Danforth - a disappointment to the religious right who would have liked to have seen him, the only ordained minister in the US Senate, gain a leadership role - taps into the sense of disquiet over the erosion of the separation of church and state.

"High-profile Republican efforts to prolong the life of Ms Schiavo, including departures from Republican principles ... can rightfully be interpreted as yielding to the pressure of religious power blocs," he wrote.

His critique of the party went far beyond Ms Schiavo yesterday, and cited the party's active opposition to **edited** marriage as well as attempts in his own state, Missouri, to criminalise stem cell research.

"I am and have always been pro-life," he wrote. "But the only explanation for legislators comparing cells in a petri dish to babies in the womb is the extension of religious doctrine into statutory law."

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005

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Badsmitty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 11:16am

Well, he's through.  His discrediting will be legendary.



Edited by Badsmitty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slacker guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 11:21am
lol/\

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2005 at 12:01pm

Well, I do agree that the Schiavo thing exposed some issues in the party.

I thought Bush was pretty clearly uncomfortable getting involved - he had that "I want to stay out of this but DeLay told me I had to" look on this face the whole time.

I see the beginning of some very interesting times in the GOP coming up.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdmiralSenn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 4:49am
On an unrelated note, I had a strange dream that I was playing a paintball arcade game as different members of the GOP a while ago.

Whoever's been slipping me acid, please stop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bugg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 8:36am
Why can't you liberals (yes I said YOU LIBERALS.. I hate being politcally correct) need to stop whining\

Bush won fair and square.. most votes in history... Kerry wasn't even close. You lost we won.. now put up with it for 4 years or go to "your" type of governemtn up in Canada.. you know the one with f'ed up health care and taxes and all that stuff?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 8:54am

LoL, I get a good laugh every time you liberals call us Christian conservatives a “Movement,” Ha! We have existed for more than 2,000 years! Your form of Anti-Christian extreme Liberalism has existed for less than 100, we Christians are a well established peaceful system and not some new Radical Hate filled Movement, which is what you Anti-Christians are.

And as for the Republicans being “held hostage” by Christians, that’s just an ignorant statement, the Republican party has always been very strongly Christian, just look at Abe Lincoln, what better example of a Christian conservative Republican is there, and he was the first republican President.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bugg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 9:08am
We repblicans had to have done something right...
Democrats have been around since begining of the US
Republicans? Lincoln.

Yet who has had more presidents in office? Thats right... the REPUBLICANS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 9:12am

The previous three posts really are an embarassment to American political thought.

Shame on you both.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 9:25am

I agree. Political parties have changed ideology so much it's a shock to compare past republicans and past democrats with current ones.

The anti-christian movement is not 200 years old, it goes just as far back as religion does.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bugg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 9:30am
Clark.. if you are going to post ELABORATE.. other wise your post is pointless.. like saying "Smart Parts sucks/is the best" without saying WHY... SAY WHY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 9:45am
Why should he explain himself? Your posts just talk about how liberals whine. You try to state that all of us want Canada's type of government as well. Clark can type whatever he wants as long as he sees general stereotyping going on by the other side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 10:06am

Dune is right - I don't have to elaborate.  My post was obvious to the thinking.

But you issued a challenge, Bugg, and I can't help myself.

Those three posts represent good (or bad, depending on how you figure) examples of the irrational "us vs. them" thinking that is all too prevalent in American politics.

"It's the librals'/republicans' fault" and similar generalistic statements are meaningless when examined, and frankly harmful to society, as they encourage irrational divisive thinking.

I challenge you to define "liberal" in a relatively detailed fashion (or "conservative" if you prefer - either will work).  Then I challenge you to find more than six people that meet that definition.

The truth is that most people think.  Most people have various opinions on a variety of subjects.  People cannot be categorized into two camps.  Any effort to do so is both obviously futile and potentially harmful, not to mention straight out silly.

Beyond that, of course, is the irrationality that Dune pointed out of attaching oneself to a particular political party.  Political parties change positions frequently over time - to take ownership of the actions of a political party in the past, simply because that party happens to share the name of "your" party, is quite insipid.

So, to elaborate, Bugg:  Your posts were irrational, illogical, unfounded, self-contradictory, harmful to society and, frankly, embarassing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 11:28am
Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

LoL, I get a good laugh every time you liberals call us Christian conservatives a “Movement,” Ha! We have existed for more than 2,000 years! Your form of Anti-Christian extreme Liberalism has existed for less than 100, we Christians are a well established peaceful system and not some new Radical Hate filled Movement, which is what you Anti-Christians are.

And as for the Republicans being “held hostage” by Christians, that’s just an ignorant statement, the Republican party has always been very strongly Christian, just look at Abe Lincoln, what better example of a Christian conservative Republican is there, and he was the first republican President.

 
Sorry for the confusion. Your movement shouldn't be confused with Christianity. It is Churchianity. It has nothing to do with Christ, except heaping shame upon him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 11:38am
I don't know about you guys, but in my bible, Jesus sends out his disiples to teach, and spread his word, teaching them to be meek, humble, and love even their enemies, having nothing but good will to all men.

No where in there does it say to run governments through strong arm tactics, perpetuate the hatred and slandering of entire religions, movements, or social groups, nor to spew blind rhetoric, but rather give well thought debates, and use your faith to give meaningful answers to your doubters.

Good job, guys. You two are the perfect example of why I hold no hope for the church, or that warped version of a god they "worship" there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pb125 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Dune is right - I don't have to elaborate.  My post was obvious to the thinking.

But you issued a challenge, Bugg, and I can't help myself.

Those three posts represent good (or bad, depending on how you figure) examples of the irrational "us vs. them" thinking that is all too prevalent in American politics.

"It's the librals'/republicans' fault" and similar generalistic statements are meaningless when examined, and frankly harmful to society, as they encourage irrational divisive thinking.

I challenge you to define "liberal" in a relatively detailed fashion (or "conservative" if you prefer - either will work).  Then I challenge you to find more than six people that meet that definition.

The truth is that most people think.  Most people have various opinions on a variety of subjects.  People cannot be categorized into two camps.  Any effort to do so is both obviously futile and potentially harmful, not to mention straight out silly.

Beyond that, of course, is the irrationality that Dune pointed out of attaching oneself to a particular political party.  Political parties change positions frequently over time - to take ownership of the actions of a political party in the past, simply because that party happens to share the name of "your" party, is quite insipid.

So, to elaborate, Bugg:  Your posts were irrational, illogical, unfounded, self-contradictory, harmful to society and, frankly, embarassing.

You forever have my utmost respect, i love you.

I'm with Clark.

-me

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 2:44pm

Originally posted by Dazed Dazed wrote:

I don't know about you guys, but in my bible, Jesus sends out his disiples to teach, and spread his word, teaching them to be meek, humble, and love even their enemies, having nothing but good will to all men.

No where in there does it say to run governments through strong arm tactics, perpetuate the hatred and slandering of entire religions, movements, or social groups, nor to spew blind rhetoric, but rather give well thought debates, and use your faith to give meaningful answers to your doubters.

Good job, guys. You two are the perfect example of why I hold no hope for the church, or that warped version of a god they "worship" there.

Very nicely put.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkMachine5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by pb125 pb125 wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Dune is right - I don't have to elaborate.  My post was obvious to the thinking.

But you issued a challenge, Bugg, and I can't help myself.

Those three posts represent good (or bad, depending on how you figure) examples of the irrational "us vs. them" thinking that is all too prevalent in American politics.

"It's the librals'/republicans' fault" and similar generalistic statements are meaningless when examined, and frankly harmful to society, as they encourage irrational divisive thinking.

I challenge you to define "liberal" in a relatively detailed fashion (or "conservative" if you prefer - either will work).  Then I challenge you to find more than six people that meet that definition.

The truth is that most people think.  Most people have various opinions on a variety of subjects.  People cannot be categorized into two camps.  Any effort to do so is both obviously futile and potentially harmful, not to mention straight out silly.

Beyond that, of course, is the irrationality that Dune pointed out of attaching oneself to a particular political party.  Political parties change positions frequently over time - to take ownership of the actions of a political party in the past, simply because that party happens to share the name of "your" party, is quite insipid.

So, to elaborate, Bugg:  Your posts were irrational, illogical, unfounded, self-contradictory, harmful to society and, frankly, embarassing.

You forever have my utmost respect, i love you.

I'm with Clark.

-me




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdmiralSenn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Dazed Dazed wrote:

I don't know about you guys, but in my bible, Jesus sends out his disiples to teach, and spread his word, teaching them to be meek, humble, and love even their enemies, having nothing but good will to all men.

No where in there does it say to run governments through strong arm tactics, perpetuate the hatred and slandering of entire religions, movements, or social groups, nor to spew blind rhetoric, but rather give well thought debates, and use your faith to give meaningful answers to your doubters.

Good job, guys. You two are the perfect example of why I hold no hope for the church, or that warped version of a god they "worship" there.


/me sighs

Just because there are Christians associated with political groups, even those who do exactly as you say they do (and there are some) does not mean all Christians or all Christians groups are like that. Not even close.

You guys make it sound like having a Christian voice in the government will destroy the world.

I am also annoyed at some of the posts here (everyone, chill down), and on both 'sides'. How about.. neither side posts anything to inflame the other side (looking at Vigilante here..) or to lump 2 billion people (Christians in the world) into one group simply because the most visible ones don't happen to subscribe to the same viewpoint that you do, or even actively engage in corrupt activity (looking at Dazed now).

As for both groups being absurd.. I agree.

It's funny how lately my thoughts and insights have been appearing on the forum from other people lately, right after I have them.

Not two weeks ago I was pondering on how both conservatives and liberals think almost exactly alike, just on different subjects. Example: Most people don't think about this, but Jesus was a liberal (read: not left-wing) in the way he acted and moved in the world. Nowadays, most Christians are conservatively minded (supposedly).

I can't remember the specifics, but I worked out this whole thing where right-wing people were opposed to one topic but supported another, and left-wing people were the opposite, and each thought the way the other was supposed to. It was something to do with one of our favorite controversial issues that I won't name since it would start a war here.






Summary: Everyone just calm... down...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hashi2008 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2005 at 3:28pm

^^ Dark, I highly disagree.  Clark has a natural talent for writing, and his words flow in a smooth way, but all he is is flash. His "facts" (or lack of them) show how highly opinionated, one sided, and closed minded towards certain people/things he is.

  On the other hand, though; I happen to partialy agree with him on this one.  As much as it hurts me to put down one of my Christian brothers, some on here are just ignorant and hatefull. 

  Don't get me wrong, I agree with some of their ideas and meanings, but they go about it all wrong.  Like Dazed said, Christians are supposed to love, forgive, and to try to show people what you want them to see by doing it rationaly and in an intelligent way.

  However, diplomacy doesn't work at all with madmen, and we can't trust thier "promises".  I agree with Bush, and we aren't just muscleing our way into Iraq to rule them.  We are overturning the current and Highly Dangerous government to let the people establish thier own government.

  I wish everyone would start complaining.

  Also, remember ,Christians; Be teachers, not complainers or people who scold others for thier beliefs/opinions. 

  "He who is without sin may cast the first stone."

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