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*Stealth*
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Topic: Need critisism... Posted: 23 September 2005 at 11:39am |
For the past couple of weeks there has been a on going arguement inside my youth group about a member who was evicted because of age. I have assumed the lead position in the arguement and have there for prepared a letter to the Pastor, Church board, and Leader of the youth group argueing the youths point as to why college members should be allowed to stay.
I want your thoughts on it, it's long, but any one who reads it through and gives me critisism will be greatly appreciated. Grammatically, I dont care about that right now, All I care about is conveying my point to who ever reads it. Thats what I want to know about.
I know alot of you dont agree with the church, and I respect that, All I'm asking for, is do I get my point across in this letter?
I'm looken for a post by you, Rambino.
Thanks
I write this, as a compilation of thoughts for this argument.
I have spent many nights pondering this subject and with each, I find myself adding to the paper. For a time this argument was held with in the youth group itself, but seemingly it was not worthwhile enough for any one to speak up about, or pursue further on into our meetings. Thus, I attempt to take it into my own hands, and hope to show the inadequate lay of the rules concerning the time to leave the youth group. I say “Time” to leave the youth group because as it stands, there are no rules… Just judgment calls. As you may have presumed this arguments prime focus is on a former member of the youth group, Heather. However, that is not this papers prime concern. It’s prime concern is the moral judgment that concerns the “Time” to leave the youth group, and the message it sends to those who find that ‘Time”. As well, if there are going to be rules concerning age or grade, then this paper calls for solid and clear rules, with out exception.
I have spent a deal of my life in this church, and I have taken part in the classes for the youth through out the predetermined stages of age and grade. Through out my stay with the church and my piers within it, I have found many friends of solid fiber, a place I can find comfort and welcome in, and a church family who will support members when they need it. Through out all of this, an emphasis on church family has been instilled in me. An emphasis on fellowship with believers who believe the same as I do, and who will support and encourage me on my Christian walk. After all is said and done, this is the core reason for church, and any classes there of. Yes, education, growth, and understanding with and of god are all large factors that support such communion, but with out a doubt, the core value of coming together under any sort of congregation or class to worship god is to do so with a church family who will lift you up and support you.
This is where the fundamentals of the youth group appear to have degraded. As an active member of the church and the youth programs there in, you actively hear through out the years the emphasis on church family and the support of one another. You make a number of friends, who in most cases proceed along with you to each new level of class, or they are with in a year of you - If that is the case, you still have fellowship with one another on the same day, under the same church, with the same people, just not in the same class. Youth group has had the privilege to be set apart from CLC activities; they come together on a separate day, and with good reason. Many parents would prefer young adults, even Christians to be set apart from the younger children. That makes complete sense, and no doubt the individuals inside the youth group have no qualms about the peace inside the church on Thursday that would other wise be disrupted if adolescences were intermingled with them. Nevertheless, I am straying from the main point of this paragraph. In CLC, even if you are moved up to a new level of class, you still actively fellowship with your friends of the lower classes on the same day, thus, for most kids there is no need for concern of losing their piers.
In the youth group however, this is not the case. After you move out of the age range, or grade. There is no place for you to go. This is no fault of the church; it is just an unfortunate circumstance that currently we do not have the number of college-based youth that would sensibly comprise a college group. The argument stands that, there are many college groups to go to outside our (Free Methodist) church. This is also, where the argument falters. The fact alone that you ask a youth group member to move on to a new youth group outside his or her own, amongst people he or she does not know, Because of his or her age or grade is going against the very fiber of the thing that has been emphasized through out their learning… A church family. You may say - “Well, you move to another group and build a church family there”. If we could just so easily migrate from family to family, we have done some thing wrong. You spend years growing with the individuals of your group, Knowing them, Helping them, Learning from them and you grow attached to that group, that group is your church family. To then be asked to move onto a new foreign group just because they are too old, or have advanced to a new grade… Is absurd. Especially in Heather's instance. She has been the only one asked to leave, whilst two others get to bend the unclear rules. She is only one year older then 50% of the youth group, and next year it is likely we will have sufficient college students to form a college group in our church. Therefore, I ask, why ask a member out, who has not caused any problems in the past, who has been in the church all her life, who has built a solid foundation among her piers, when only a year later the majority of those same piers will be starting a college group. Why can exceptions be made for one college student, and one eighteen year old, but not a college student who happens to be eighteen years old? Who further more, desperately still wants to be part of the youth group!
Let me use an analogy:
A shepherd has a flock of sheep. In this flock, he has a lamb that has come to age. This lamb is older then his fellow lambs, but still to young to intermingle with the adult sheep. The shepherd has a pen for lambs, and a pen for the adult sheep. However, since there is not a pen for the older lambs because there is not enough to facilitate the need, and he is not willing to leave the young sheep with the younger lambs. He sends the young sheep from his pasture to find a flock where it will be suitable! The young sheep did not cause any harm to the younger lambs, and in fact, the younger lambs enjoyed its company. The lamb was sent from the pasture strictly, because that is how the shepherd saw the rules.
Not much of a shepherd to just send the sheep away instead of finding a place for it with in its flock!
“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?” Luke- 15:4-5
So we clearly understand every one is valuable, How can we justify sending some one to an entirely different entity when her home is at our church? Just because of age and grade? No one has qualms with her being there, With the exception of some legalistic format of rules that are unclear to begin with!
Granted, others have had to go through the same thing, and it is disheartening to think that they had to go through it when it could have been prevented. The question to ask yourself though is, how many youth have to go through it until change is made, until the past is reconciled and the wrong doings are set right?
----
I for one cannot begin to understand how it is even possible for some thing like this to happen inside our church! It’s appalling to think that the same circumstances have befell every single member of the youth group prior to this year, and for most, at least the female members, Every time the youth group member who has gotten “Too old” for the group is evicted the member is hurt, often disgruntled, More then likely resents the youth group for it, and possibly even the church, and for some cases as it seems, Leaves the church entirely. I cannot believe that after these reoccurring after effects of be evicted from the youth group the “Rules” of age have remained the same! The entire mentality must then be that “Life is not fair, Life is hard, we’re sorry we can no longer be of service to you… Good bye”. That is the all too common ideal of today, In Work, School, and Law… However, how can it be that way in our church!?
“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
Romans 12.1
I ask you, Do any of you who hear or read this statement, honestly believe that God would have it this way? I for one think not.
Some may argue, “We can’t have twenty-three-year olds mingling with fourteen-year-olds” I do not see any validity in that point. Sure, I accept that a parent would not want there child conversing with some one of a greater age in today’s modern world. But we are discussing a church, with all the ideals of god, and further more we are being supervised by an adult fellowship leader every time we come together. Now, I yield and understand to the fact we cannot have twenty-three-year-old college students over powering younger students with their knowledge and confidence. If this is the case with any member, where he or she is clearly undermining the learning experience and participation of a younger individual. There is clear grounds to ask that student to yield to the younger in teachings, or if the case calls for it, ask that member to leave on misconduct. As well, if the older member is harming the younger student in any manner, Physically, Mentally, or Spiritually. There are grounds for the student to be reprimanded or warned. But to ask members who have not caused any trouble in the past, to leave… just because they have gotten to old is just, foolish. We see cases in a majority of youth groups where college students are in the same group as high school students, where it can be a rich learning experience for both ages! Power House youth ministries, and the New Life church are just a few examples. In Christian ministry, we see all ages mixing well with one another. I remember a M.O.S.E.S. mission trip were fourteen-year-olds mixed nicely in with twenty-year-olds, and even adults. So where is the basis for our church to evict a member on age alone, when cases every where show that there is no need for it!? I can understand asking some one to move out of the youth group if we had a college group, but we don’t. So why don’t we allow our college members in with our Youth Group? The majority of them already have strong bonds with it’s members any way.
I Timothy 4:12
"Don’t let ANYONE look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in Speech, in Life, in Love, in Faith and in Purity. “
Speaking as a Christian home schooled individual I can state with out hesitation just how difficult it is to find social venues and good friends that cater to our beliefs and attitudes. Heather, who has been brought up in this church, and all it is youth programs there in, who also is home schooled. Openly will say that all her friends are in and have come from the youth programs in our church. She will speak of how she always looked to Thursdays and hanging with the youth group, How she would have fun at the “get-togethers“ The youth group would participate in. She will also tell you now, how much it hurts her to be rejected from that group, to be unable to be with all her friends, to be unable to participate in a group that is part of our church. I’ve watched her cry each Thursday this season because she cant go to some thing she enjoyed so much.
Further, it helps nothing that we can clearly see exception, and rule bending for other members. Jeff is college bound, He is allowed to participate in the youth group, Rachael is eighteen, and she is allowed to participate in the youth group, as well. Other exceptions have been made in the past; Christie completely skipped the JR. High class entirely and was moved directly to the youth group program, even though she was far under age. This season collapses in on itself in the fact that two exceptions, one college student, and one eighteen year old, have been made, and one individual was singled out, and worse yet, in just a year it will be easily achievable to have a college group. So, why can exceptions be made for some, but not others? Especially when the youth group itself does not protest the older members to be allowed into the group? We have a single individual who exceptions were not made for, and now that individual feels as if she is being singled out. As if, she is not wanted in the youth group on a personal basis.
If the church feels the need to say, ‘College students can’t be allowed with the high school students” Then there needs to be, clear, concise rules, with out exceptions. That way, No one is singled out. If you are eighteen - You are out. If you are a college student - you are out. We cannot leave it to be a judgment call, where it appears that favoritism is the leading factor in deciding who stays in the youth group, and who goes. This only leads to bitter taste in prior member’s mouths for the system of rules that has been laid down for the youth group concerning age.
I hope this paper has made you challenge the thought of the rule system in you’re minds, If not for Heather being asked to leave, then for the entire system as a whole. I have no intentions of coming across as harsh or angry with this paper. My entire desire is to see that a similar situation of this caliber not arise again. No one in the youth group protests Heather staying in the youth group on a personal basis, and yet Heather sits at home every Thursday, hurt, thinking about the fun she could be having with her piers. As I’m sure has been the case with many prior members who have had the same thing happen to them. All the while two exceptions actively participate in the youth group this season. Both my friends, Both I’d hate to see leave, But both clearly showing the lack of integrity in the rules.
In my mind, It is clear that some thing should be changed, and that is why I write you this letter. As a concerned youth group member who is tired of seeing the same act befall member after member. -Keith
Edited by *Stealth*
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Hades
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 11:53am |
Good luck finding your answer, it is too religious for me and I dont really care to debate it.
Regardless of what anyone says if you feel something is wrong, definately fight it.
Oh and if something makes the said girl upset it definately isnt right for her. Try something else. Start your own hangout/ youth group thing and steal all the kids you hang out with.
Edited by Hades
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*Stealth*
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 12:01pm |
Hades wrote:
Good luck finding your answer, it is too religious for me and I dont really care to debate it.
Regardless of what anyone says if you feel something is wrong, definately fight it.
Oh and if something makes the said girl upset it definately isnt right for her. Try something else. Start your own hangout/ youth group thing and steal all the kids you hang out with. |
I dont care to get into any of the religous aspects with this forum either, However I would like to know how well my point is conveyd, or what I should work more on..
Edited by *Stealth*
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procarbinefreak
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 12:11pm |
well duh... of course the church won't let her in.... she's in college... all college girls do is have sex, drink, do drugs and sin!
on a more serious note...
i think you do convey your message clearly... but i believe that the college kids should be in their own group. not because i don't feel like 14 year olds should be talking with college kids, but colleges have these religious groups already and its a great way to meet people on campus and get involved. if they want to get involved with this local youth group, they should check and see if they can help out running/organizing it. you even said that within a year ther ecould be a college group... push for that.
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*Stealth*
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 12:18pm |
procarbinefreak wrote:
well duh... of course the church won't let her in.... she's in college... all college girls do is have sex, drink, do drugs and sin!
on a more serious note...
i think you do convey your message clearly... but i believe that the college kids should be in their own group. not because i don't feel like 14 year olds should be talking with college kids, but colleges have these religious groups already and its a great way to meet people on campus and get involved. if they want to get involved with this local youth group, they should check and see if they can help out running/organizing it. you even said that within a year ther ecould be a college group... push for that. |
She did want to help with the youth group, Our leader shot it down.
There is no alternative college group thats not under a particular church. The closest one is 20 miles out of town, she tried it, was very uncomfertable there.
I do however agree, idealy it would be more benificial to just have a college group.
'Preciate the critisism!
Edited by *Stealth*
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Hades
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 12:45pm |
Since the people you are dealing with are morons and there arent other options available to your friend maybe they can break the groups into smaller catagories. Ieee 14-16, 17-older cause really how much does a highschook freshman have in common with a high school senior? But a high school senior and a college freshman have alot more in common.
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Rambino
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 1:32pm |
Good stuff. My comments inserted in [] below. Any apparent snippiness in my commentary is incidental and should be ignored.
*Stealth* wrote:
[Who is the audience? Is it a person or a group? How familiar are they with the issues? Is this an ongoing discussion, or are you raising this issue?]
[Your first couple of sentences are a bit rambly, and do not introduce the subject or issue, or your position. I would suggest you first remind them of the issue ("As you may be aware, there has been some discussion regarding the appropriateness of college-aged students in our youth groups..." - something like that). Then briefly state your position, unless you are trying to sneak up on them, which I don't think you are ("I believe that college-aged students can successfully integrated into our youth program, for the reasons explained below"). Generally speaking, you need more firm statements up front, and less introspection. Your readers don't care about your writing process - they want to know what you are trying to say.]
I write this, as a compilation of thoughts for this argument.
I have spent many nights pondering this subject and with each, I find myself adding to the paper. For a time this argument was held with in the youth group itself, but seemingly it was not worthwhile enough for any one to speak up about, or pursue further on into our meetings. Thus, I attempt to take it into my own hands, and hope to show the inadequate lay of the rules concerning the time to leave the youth group. [Everything before this I would suggest rewriting per my note above. And don't apologize - you aren't "attempting" to show, you are simply going to explain the situation]
I say “Time” to leave the youth group because as it stands, there are no rules… Just judgment calls. As you may have presumed [And this is the my point - they shouldn't have to "presume" anything - tell them up front what your point is. Mention Heather earlier on, if that was the catalyst for this writing] this arguments [argument's] prime focus is on a former member of the youth group, Heather. However, that is not this papers [paper's] prime concern. It’s [its] prime concern is the moral judgment that concerns the “Time” to leave the youth group, and the message it sends to those who find that ‘Time”. As well, if there are going to be rules concerning age or grade, then this paper [I would not call this a "paper". Students write "papers" for class. This is not a class assignment - you are downgrading yourself by calling it a "paper". Don't call it anything at all - simply say that "I call for..." or "there should be..." - you are simply stating the truth. There is no "paper". If you absolutely have to call it something (which you certainly don't in this sentence), call it a "letter" or something like that.] calls for solid and clear rules, with out [without]exception. [You should also say that you think those rules should allow for people to stay. You don't simply want clear rules; you want clear rules that permit college-aged kids to stay. Say so.]
I have spent a deal of my life in this church, and I have taken part in the classes for the youth through out [throughout] the predetermined stages of age and grade. Through out [throughout] my stay with the church and my piers [peers] within it, I have found many friends of solid fiber [moral fiber], a place I can find comfort and welcome in, and a church family who [that] will support members when they need it. Through out [throughout] all of this, an emphasis on church family has been instilled in me. An emphasis on fellowship with believers who believe the same as I do, and who will support and encourage me on my Christian walk. After all is said and done, this is the core reason for church, and any classes there of. Yes, education, growth, and understanding with and of god are all large factors that support such communion, but with out [without] a doubt, the core value of coming together under any sort of congregation or class to worship god is to do so with a church family who will lift you up and support you.
[Very nice paragraph - but only if you have fully prepped the readers to have the unfair current system in mind when they read the paragraph. This paragraph hits hard if the reader knows what you are talking about - otherwise it is just a ramble. Make SURE that the reader knows exactly what your point is BEFORE they get to that paragraph.]
This is where the fundamentals of the youth group appear to have degraded. As an active member of the church and the youth programs there in, you actively hear through out [throughout] the years the emphasis on church family and the support of one another. You make a number of friends, who in most cases proceed along with you to each new level of class, or they are with in [within] a year of you - If [don't capitalize] that is the case, you still have fellowship with one another on the same day, under the same church, with the same people, just not in the same class. Youth group has had the privilege to be set apart from CLC [I presume everybody knows what "CLC" means - otherwise you may want to spell it out] activities; they come together on a separate day, and with good reason. Many parents would prefer young adults, even Christians [comma] to be set apart from the younger children. [The next sentences give too much away. Replace with "This is a reasonable concern." Delete from here ...] That makes complete sense, and no doubt the individuals inside the youth group have no qualms about the peace inside the church on Thursday that would other wise be disrupted if adolescences were intermingled with them. Nevertheless, I am straying from the main point of this paragraph. [... to here. Also, if you know you are straying, why are you straying?]
[Paragraph break here, combine this into the next paragraph]
[One of the benefits of CLC is that][Delete this:In CLC,] even if you are moved up to a new level of class, you still actively fellowship [is this a verb?] with your friends of the lower classes on the same day[period] thus [Thus], for most kids there is no need for concern of losing their piers [peers].
In the youth group however, this is not the case. After you move out of the age range, or grade. There is no place for you to go. This is no fault of the church; it is just an unfortunate circumstance that currently we do not have the number of college-based youth that would sensibly comprise a college group. The argument stands [is] that, [no comma] there are many college groups to go to outside our (Free Methodist) church. This is also, where the argument falters. [This is problematic argument] The fact [is that] [delete: alone that you ask] [we are asking] a youth group member to move on to a new youth group outside his or her own, amongst people he or she does not know, Because [don't capitalize] of his or her age or grade [period, new sentence] [Delete:is going against the very fiber of the thing ] [This goes against the very same principle] that has been emphasized through out [throughout] their [use "our", not "their" - tie yourself to the discussion. This isn't an academic issue - you are in the middle of it. You are an interested party] learning… [no ellipses - use colon or dash, and don't capitalize] A church family. You may [One might say - don't assume that your readers disagree with you, and don't argue directly against them. Always make the bad guys some unnamed person when possible] say - “Well, you move to another group and build a church family there”. If we could just so easily migrate from family to family, we have done some thing wrong. [Excellent point - I would rephrase: "If members of our church family find it so easy to migrate from family to family, then we have done something wrong."] [You have made your point. Don't undermine it by not shutting up. Delete from here...]You spend years growing with the individuals of your group, Knowing them, Helping them, Learning from them and you grow attached to that group, that group is your church family. To then be asked to move onto a new foreign group just because they are too old, or have advanced to a new grade… Is absurd.[...to here. New paragraph. Let that point sink in]
[Heather is important. She gets her own paragraph]Especially in Heather's instance. [Restate: "This problem is aggravated by inconsistent application. Only Heather has been [delete:the only one] asked to leave, whilst [while] two others [were permitted to stay in apparent violation of the unclear rules] [delete:get to bend the unclear rules][Don't blame the victims]. She is only one year older then 50% of the youth group, and next year it is likely we will have sufficient college students to form a college group in our church. [paragraph]
Therefore, I [must] ask [delete:, why ask a member out,] [- why are we asking a family member to leave? A family member] who has not caused any problems in the past, who has been in the church all her life, who has built a solid foundation among her piers [peers], when only a year later the majority of those same piers [peers] will be starting a college group. Why can exceptions be made for one college student, and one eighteen year old, but not a college student who happens to be eighteen years old? [I don't think these details are important. Get to the point. Restate: Why can exceptions be made for some, but not for Heather?] [delete: Who further more, desperately still wants to be part of the youth group! ] [More importantly, why do we even have such a rule?]
[I am torn on the next several paragraphs. They are well-written, and I like using Biblical parables in this argument, but you are getting a bit long-winded. You have made your main point at this time - consider whether the next couple of paragraphs really add anything, or whether they perhaps can be shortened/collapsed a bit]
Let me use an analogy:
A shepherd has a flock of sheep. In this flock, he has a lamb that has come to age. This lamb is older then his fellow lambs, but still to young to intermingle with the adult sheep. The shepherd has a pen for lambs, and a pen for the adult sheep. However, since there is not a pen for the older lambs because there is not enough to facilitate the need, and he is not willing to leave the young sheep with the younger lambs. He sends the young sheep from his pasture to find a flock where it will be suitable! The young sheep did not cause any harm to the younger lambs, and in fact, the younger lambs enjoyed its company. The lamb was sent from the pasture strictly, because that is how the shepherd saw the rules.
Not much of a shepherd to just send the sheep away instead of finding a place for it with in its flock!
“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?” Luke- 15:4-5
So we clearly understand every one is valuable, How can we justify sending some one to an entirely different entity when her home is at our church? Just because of age and grade? No one has qualms with her being there, With the exception of some legalistic format of rules that are unclear to begin with! [I really like this paragraph. Clearly straight from the heart, and very honest and straight-forward. Definitely keep this paragraph.]
Granted, others have had to go through the same thing, and it is disheartening to think that they had to go through it when it could have been prevented. The question to ask yourself though is, how many youth have to go through it until change is made, until the past is reconciled and the wrong doings are set right?
---- [delete the lines - this is not a novel]
I for one cannot begin to understand how it is even possible for some thing like this to happen inside our church! It’s appalling to think that the same circumstances have befell every single member of the youth group prior to this year, and for most, at least the female members, Every time the youth group member who has gotten “Too old” for the group is evicted the member is hurt, often disgruntled, More then likely resents the youth group for it, and possibly even the church, and for some cases as it seems, Leaves the church entirely. I cannot believe that after these reoccurring after effects of be evicted from the youth group the “Rules” of age have remained the same! The entire mentality must then be that “Life is not fair, Life is hard, we’re sorry we can no longer be of service to you… Good bye”. That is the all too common ideal of today, In Work, School, and Law… However, how can it be that way in our church!? [I would delete this whole paragraph. I little too much honesty here... You are just yelling, and will upset the reader. This paragraph is counter-productive]
“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
Romans 12.1
I ask you, Do any of you who hear or read this statement, honestly believe that God would have it this way? I for one think not.
Some may argue, “We can’t have twenty-three-year olds mingling with fourteen-year-olds” I do not see any validity in that point. Sure, I accept that a parent would not [don't "accept" that. Don't admit this much to the bad guys. restate this whole sentence: "I understand that some parents may not their child socializing with someone much older in today's modern world] want there child conversing with some one of a greater age in today’s modern world. But we are discussing a church, with all the ideals of god [God], and further more [furthermore] we are being supervised by an adult fellowship leader every time we come together. [I also understant that we should not have] [delete:Now, I yield and understand to the fact we cannot have] twenty-three-year-old college students over powering [overpowering] younger students with their knowledge and confidence. If this is the case with any member, where he or she is clearly undermining the learning experience and participation of a younger individual [comma, then it would be appropriate to ask that student to leave] [delete:. There is clear grounds to ask that student to yield to the younger in teachings, or if the case calls for it, ask that member to leave on misconduct.] [Clearly the same applies in the event of an] [delete:As well, if the] older member [delete:is] harming [delete: the] [a] younger student in any manner, [be it] Physically, Mentally, or Spiritually [don't capitalize]. [delete the following sentence - you made your point]There are grounds for the student to be reprimanded or warned. [keep this sentence] But to ask members who have not caused any trouble in the past, to leave… [comma, not ellipses] just because they have gotten to [too] old is just, [no comma. I also would say "foolish" - don't insult your readers if you want to convince them. Say something softer, like unjustified, or unnecessary, contrary to our principles, or something like that] foolish. [new point, new paragraph]
We see cases in a majority of youth groups where college students are in the same group as high school students, where it can be a rich learning experience for both ages! [period, not exclamation point] Power House youth ministries, [no comma] and the New Life church are just a few examples. In Christian ministry, we see all ages mixing well with one another. I remember a M.O.S.E.S. mission trip were fourteen-year-olds mixed nicely in with twenty-year-olds, and even adults. So where is the basis for our church to [restate: So why does our church] evict a member on age alone, when cases every where [everywhere] show that there is no need for it!? [never use exclamation points] [you made your point - delete the rest of the paragraph]I can understand asking some one to move out of the youth group if we had a college group, but we don’t. So why don’t we allow our college members in with our Youth Group? The majority of them already have strong bonds with it’s members any way.
I Timothy 4:12 [move this underneath the quote for consistency with your other quotes]
"Don’t let ANYONE look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in Speech, in Life, in Love, in Faith and in Purity. “
Speaking as a Christian home schooled individual I can state with out [without] hesitation just how difficult it is to find social venues and good friends that cater to our beliefs and attitudes. Heather, who has been brought up in this church, and all it is youth programs there in, who also is home schooled. [comma, not period] Openly will say that all her friends are in and have come from the youth programs in our church. She will speak of how she always looked to Thursdays and hanging with the youth group, How she would have fun at the “get-togethers“ The youth group would participate in. She will also tell you now, how much it hurts her to be rejected from that group, to be unable to be with all her friends, to be unable to participate in a group that is part of our church. I’ve watched her cry each Thursday this season because she cant go to some thing she enjoyed so much.
Further, it helps nothing that we can clearly see exception, and rule bending for other members. Jeff is college bound, He is allowed to participate in the youth group, Rachael is eighteen, and she is allowed to participate in the youth group, as well. Other exceptions have been made in the past; Christie completely skipped the JR. High class entirely and was moved directly to the youth group program, even though she was far under age. This season collapses in on itself in the fact that two exceptions, one college student, and one eighteen year old, have been made, and one individual was singled out, and worse yet, in just a year it will be easily achievable to have a college group. So, why can exceptions be made for some, but not others? Especially when the youth group itself does not protest the older members to be allowed into the group? We have a single individual who exceptions were not made for, and now that individual feels as if she is being singled out. As if, she is not wanted in the youth group on a personal basis.
If the church feels the need to say, ["]‘College students can’t be allowed with the high school students” Then [no cap]there needs to be, clear, concise rules, with out exceptions. That way, No [no cap]one is singled out. If you are eighteen - You are out. If you are a college student - you are out. We cannot leave it to be a judgment call, where it appears that favoritism is the leading factor in deciding who stays in the youth group, and who goes. This only leads to bitter taste in prior member’s mouths for the system of rules that has been laid down for the youth group concerning age.
I hope [you will take a moment to reconsider the current rule and its application,] [delete until comma]this paper has made you challenge the thought of the rule system in you’re minds, If not for Heather being asked to leave, then for the entire system as a whole. [don't apologize - take out the next sentence]I have no intentions of coming across as harsh or angry with this paper. [you've made your point. Delete rest of paragraph] My entire desire is to see that a similar situation of this caliber not arise again. No one in the youth group protests Heather staying in the youth group on a personal basis, and yet Heather sits at home every Thursday, hurt, thinking about the fun she could be having with her piers. As I’m sure has been the case with many prior members who have had the same thing happen to them. All the while two exceptions actively participate in the youth group this season. Both my friends, Both I’d hate to see leave, But both clearly showing the lack of integrity in the rules.
[This paragraph isn't needed either. See if you still need a concluding paragraph after revising, but you shouldn't have to close with telling people why you are writing - they should know that by now] In my mind, It is clear that some thing should be changed, and that is why I write you this letter. As a concerned youth group member who is tired of seeing the same act befall member after member. -Keith
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Good. I think it may still be too long, though. Remember - the purpose is not to pour your heart out, but to convince the reader. To do that, every word has to count. Look for sentences that don't add anything.
I hope that helps. Good luck, to you and to Heather.
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 1:47pm |
Rambino wrote:
<FONT face=Arial size=2>
Good stuff. My comments inserted in [] below. Any apparent snippiness in my commentary is incidental and should be ignored.
*Stealth* wrote:
[Who is the audience? Is it a person or a group? How familiar are they with the issues? Is this an ongoing discussion, or are you raising this issue?]
[Your first couple of sentences are a bit rambly, and do not introduce the subject or issue, or your position. I would suggest you first remind them of the issue ("As you may be aware, there has been some discussion regarding the appropriateness of college-aged students in our youth groups..." - something like that). Then briefly state your position, unless you are trying to sneak up on them, which I don't think you are ("I believe that college-aged students can successfully integrated into our youth program, for the reasons explained below"). Generally speaking, you need more firm statements up front, and less introspection. Your readers don't care about your writing process - they want to know what you are trying to say.]
I write this, as a compilation of thoughts for this argument. I have spent many nights pondering this subject and with each, I find myself adding to the paper. For a time this argument was held with in the youth group itself, but seemingly it was not worthwhile enough for any one to speak up about, or pursue further on into our meetings. Thus, I attempt to take it into my own hands, and hope to show the inadequate lay of the rules concerning the time to leave the youth group. [Everything before this I would suggest rewriting per my note above. And don't apologize - you aren't "attempting" to show, you are simply going to explain the situation]
I say “Time” to leave the youth group because as it stands, there are no rules… Just judgment calls. As you may have presumed [And this is the my point - they shouldn't have to "presume" anything - tell them up front what your point is. Mention Heather earlier on, if that was the catalyst for this writing] this arguments [argument's] prime focus is on a former member of the youth group, Heather. However, that is not this papers [paper's] prime concern. It’s [its] prime concern is the moral judgment that concerns the “Time” to leave the youth group, and the message it sends to those who find that ‘Time”. As well, if there are going to be rules concerning age or grade, then this paper [I would not call this a "paper". Students write "papers" for class. This is not a class assignment - you are downgrading yourself by calling it a "paper". Don't call it anything at all - simply say that "I call for..." or "there should be..." - you are simply stating the truth. There is no "paper". If you absolutely have to call it something (which you certainly don't in this sentence), call it a "letter" or something like that.] calls for solid and clear rules, with out [without]exception. [You should also say that you think those rules should allow for people to stay. You don't simply want clear rules; you want clear rules that permit college-aged kids to stay. Say so.]I have spent a deal of my life in this church, and I have taken part in the classes for the youth through out [throughout] the predetermined stages of age and grade. Through out [throughout] my stay with the church and my piers [peers] within it, I have found many friends of solid fiber [moral fiber], a place I can find comfort and welcome in, and a church family who [that] will support members when they need it. Through out [throughout] all of this, an emphasis on church family has been instilled in me. An emphasis on fellowship with believers who believe the same as I do, and who will support and encourage me on my Christian walk. After all is said and done, this is the core reason for church, and any classes there of. Yes, education, growth, and understanding with and of god are all large factors that support such communion, but with out [without] a doubt, the core value of coming together under any sort of congregation or class to worship god is to do so with a church family who will lift you up and support you.
[Very nice paragraph - but only if you have fully prepped the readers to have the unfair current system in mind when they read the paragraph. This paragraph hits hard if the reader knows what you are talking about - otherwise it is just a ramble. Make SURE that the reader knows exactly what your point is BEFORE they get to that paragraph.]This is where the fundamentals of the youth group appear to have degraded. As an active member of the church and the youth programs there in, you actively hear through out [throughout] the years the emphasis on church family and the support of one another. You make a number of friends, who in most cases proceed along with you to each new level of class, or they are with in [within] a year of you - If [don't capitalize] that is the case, you still have fellowship with one another on the same day, under the same church, with the same people, just not in the same class. Youth group has had the privilege to be set apart from CLC [I presume everybody knows what "CLC" means - otherwise you may want to spell it out] activities; they come together on a separate day, and with good reason. Many parents would prefer young adults, even Christians [comma] to be set apart from the younger children. [The next sentences give too much away. Replace with "This is a reasonable concern." Delete from here ...] That makes complete sense, and no doubt the individuals inside the youth group have no qualms about the peace inside the church on Thursday that would other wise be disrupted if adolescences were intermingled with them. Nevertheless, I am straying from the main point of this paragraph. [... to here. Also, if you know you are straying, why are you straying?]
[Paragraph break here, combine this into the next paragraph]
[One of the benefits of CLC is that][Delete this:In CLC,] even if you are moved up to a new level of class, you still actively fellowship [is this a verb?] with your friends of the lower classes on the same day[period] thus [Thus], for most kids there is no need for concern of losing their piers [peers]. In the youth group however, this is not the case. After you move out of the age range, or grade. There is no place for you to go. This is no fault of the church; it is just an unfortunate circumstance that currently we do not have the number of college-based youth that would sensibly comprise a college group. The argument stands [is] that, [no comma] there are many college groups to go to outside our (Free Methodist) church. This is also, where the argument falters. [This is problematic argument] The fact [is that] [delete: alone that you ask] [we are asking] a youth group member to move on to a new youth group outside his or her own, amongst people he or she does not know, Because [don't capitalize] of his or her age or grade [period, new sentence] [Delete:is going against the very fiber of the thing ] [This goes against the very same principle] that has been emphasized through out [throughout] their [use "our", not "their" - tie yourself to the discussion. This isn't an academic issue - you are in the middle of it. You are an interested party] learning… [no ellipses - use colon or dash, and don't capitalize] A church family. You may [One might say - don't assume that your readers disagree with you, and don't argue directly against them. Always make the bad guys some unnamed person when possible] say - “Well, you move to another group and build a church family there”. If we could just so easily migrate from family to family, we have done some thing wrong. [Excellent point - I would rephrase: "If members of our church family find it so easy to migrate from family to family, then we have done something wrong."] [You have made your point. Don't undermine it by not shutting up. Delete from here...]You spend years growing with the individuals of your group, Knowing them, Helping them, Learning from them and you grow attached to that group, that group is your church family. To then be asked to move onto a new foreign group just because they are too old, or have advanced to a new grade… Is absurd.[...to here. New paragraph. Let that point sink in]
[Heather is important. She gets her own paragraph]Especially in Heather's instance. [Restate: "This problem is aggravated by inconsistent application. Only Heather has been [delete:the only one] asked to leave, whilst [while] two others [were permitted to stay in apparent violation of the unclear rules] [delete:get to bend the unclear rules][Don't blame the victims]. She is only one year older then 50% of the youth group, and next year it is likely we will have sufficient college students to form a college group in our church. [paragraph]
Therefore, I [must] ask [delete:, why ask a member out,] [- why are we asking a family member to leave? A family member] who has not caused any problems in the past, who has been in the church all her life, who has built a solid foundation among her piers [peers], when only a year later the majority of those same piers [peers] will be starting a college group. Why can exceptions be made for one college student, and one eighteen year old, but not a college student who happens to be eighteen years old? [I don't think these details are important. Get to the point. Restate: Why can exceptions be made for some, but not for Heather?] [delete: Who further more, desperately still wants to be part of the youth group! ] [More importantly, why do we even have such a rule?][I am torn on the next several paragraphs. They are well-written, and I like using Biblical parables in this argument, but you are getting a bit long-winded. You have made your main point at this time - consider whether the next couple of paragraphs really add anything, or whether they perhaps can be shortened/collapsed a bit]
Let me use an analogy: A shepherd has a flock of sheep. In this flock, he has a lamb that has come to age. This lamb is older then his fellow lambs, but still to young to intermingle with the adult sheep. The shepherd has a pen for lambs, and a pen for the adult sheep. However, since there is not a pen for the older lambs because there is not enough to facilitate the need, and he is not willing to leave the young sheep with the younger lambs. He sends the young sheep from his pasture to find a flock where it will be suitable! The young sheep did not cause any harm to the younger lambs, and in fact, the younger lambs enjoyed its company. The lamb was sent from the pasture strictly, because that is how the shepherd saw the rules. Not much of a shepherd to just send the sheep away instead of finding a place for it with in its flock! “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?” Luke- 15:4-5 So we clearly understand every one is valuable, How can we justify sending some one to an entirely different entity when her home is at our church? Just because of age and grade? No one has qualms with her being there, With the exception of some legalistic format of rules that are unclear to begin with! [I really like this paragraph. Clearly straight from the heart, and very honest and straight-forward. Definitely keep this paragraph.]Granted, others have had to go through the same thing, and it is disheartening to think that they had to go through it when it could have been prevented. The question to ask yourself though is, how many youth have to go through it until change is made, until the past is reconciled and the wrong doings are set right? ---- [delete the lines - this is not a novel]I for one cannot begin to understand how it is even possible for some thing like this to happen inside our church! It’s appalling to think that the same circumstances have befell every single member of the youth group prior to this year, and for most, at least the female members, Every time the youth group member who has gotten “Too old” for the group is evicted the member is hurt, often disgruntled, More then likely resents the youth group for it, and possibly even the church, and for some cases as it seems, Leaves the church entirely. I cannot believe that after these reoccurring after effects of be evicted from the youth group the “Rules” of age have remained the same! The entire mentality must then be that “Life is not fair, Life is hard, we’re sorry we can no longer be of service to you… Good bye”. That is the all too common ideal of today, In Work, School, and Law… However, how can it be that way in our church!? [I would delete this whole paragraph. I little too much honesty here... You are just yelling, and will upset the reader. This paragraph is counter-productive]“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” Romans 12.1 I ask you, Do any of you who hear or read this statement, honestly believe that God would have it this way? I for one think not. Some may argue, “We can’t have twenty-three-year olds mingling with fourteen-year-olds” I do not see any validity in that point. Sure, I accept that a parent would not [don't "accept" that. Don't admit this much to the bad guys. restate this whole sentence: "I understand that some parents may not their child socializing with someone much older in today's modern world] want there child conversing with some one of a greater age in today’s modern world. But we are discussing a church, with all the ideals of god [God], and further more [furthermore] we are being supervised by an adult fellowship leader every time we come together. [I also understant that we should not have] [delete:Now, I yield and understand to the fact we cannot have] twenty-three-year-old college students over powering [overpowering] younger students with their knowledge and confidence. If this is the case with any member, where he or she is clearly undermining the learning experience and participation of a younger individual [comma, then it would be appropriate to ask that student to leave] [delete:. There is clear grounds to ask that student to yield to the younger in teachings, or if the case calls for it, ask that member to leave on misconduct.] [Clearly the same applies in the event of an] [delete:As well, if the] older member [delete:is] harming [delete: the] [a] younger student in any manner, [be it] Physically, Mentally, or Spiritually [don't capitalize]. [delete the following sentence - you made your point]There are grounds for the student to be reprimanded or warned. [keep this sentence] But to ask members who have not caused any trouble in the past, to leave… [comma, not ellipses] just because they have gotten to [too] old is just, [no comma. I also would say "foolish" - don't insult your readers if you want to convince them. Say something softer, like unjustified, or unnecessary, contrary to our principles, or something like that] foolish. [new point, new paragraph]
We see cases in a majority of youth groups where college students are in the same group as high school students, where it can be a rich learning experience for both ages! [period, not exclamation point] Power House youth ministries, [no comma] and the New Life church are just a few examples. In Christian ministry, we see all ages mixing well with one another. I remember a M.O.S.E.S. mission trip were fourteen-year-olds mixed nicely in with twenty-year-olds, and even adults. So where is the basis for our church to [restate: So why does our church] evict a member on age alone, when cases every where [everywhere] show that there is no need for it!? [never use exclamation points] [you made your point - delete the rest of the paragraph]I can understand asking some one to move out of the youth group if we had a college group, but we don’t. So why don’t we allow our college members in with our Youth Group? The majority of them already have strong bonds with it’s members any way. I Timothy 4:12 [move this underneath the quote for consistency with your other quotes]"Don’t let ANYONE look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in Speech, in Life, in Love, in Faith and in Purity. “ Speaking as a Christian home schooled individual I can state with out [without] hesitation just how difficult it is to find social venues and good friends that cater to our beliefs and attitudes. Heather, who has been brought up in this church, and all it is youth programs there in, who also is home schooled. [comma, not period] Openly will say that all her friends are in and have come from the youth programs in our church. She will speak of how she always looked to Thursdays and hanging with the youth group, How she would have fun at the “get-togethers“ The youth group would participate in. She will also tell you now, how much it hurts her to be rejected from that group, to be unable to be with all her friends, to be unable to participate in a group that is part of our church. I’ve watched her cry each Thursday this season because she cant go to some thing she enjoyed so much. Further, it helps nothing that we can clearly see exception, and rule bending for other members. Jeff is college bound, He is allowed to participate in the youth group, Rachael is eighteen, and she is allowed to participate in the youth group, as well. Other exceptions have been made in the past; Christie completely skipped the JR. High class entirely and was moved directly to the youth group program, even though she was far under age. This season collapses in on itself in the fact that two exceptions, one college student, and one eighteen year old, have been made, and one individual was singled out, and worse yet, in just a year it will be easily achievable to have a college group. So, why can exceptions be made for some, but not others? Especially when the youth group itself does not protest the older members to be allowed into the group? We have a single individual who exceptions were not made for, and now that individual feels as if she is being singled out. As if, she is not wanted in the youth group on a personal basis. If the church feels the need to say, ["]‘College students can’t be allowed with the high school students” Then [no cap]there needs to be, clear, concise rules, with out exceptions. That way, No [no cap]one is singled out. If you are eighteen - You are out. If you are a college student - you are out. We cannot leave it to be a judgment call, where it appears that favoritism is the leading factor in deciding who stays in the youth group, and who goes. This only leads to bitter taste in prior member’s mouths for the system of rules that has been laid down for the youth group concerning age. I hope [you will take a moment to reconsider the current rule and its application,] [delete until comma]this paper has made you challenge the thought of the rule system in you’re minds, If not for Heather being asked to leave, then for the entire system as a whole. [don't apologize - take out the next sentence]I have no intentions of coming across as harsh or angry with this paper. [you've made your point. Delete rest of paragraph] My entire desire is to see that a similar situation of this caliber not arise again. No one in the youth group protests Heather staying in the youth group on a personal basis, and yet Heather sits at home every Thursday, hurt, thinking about the fun she could be having with her piers. As I’m sure has been the case with many prior members who have had the same thing happen to them. All the while two exceptions actively participate in the youth group this season. Both my friends, Both I’d hate to see leave, But both clearly showing the lack of integrity in the rules. [This paragraph isn't needed either. See if you still need a concluding paragraph after revising, but you shouldn't have to close with telling people why you are writing - they should know that by now] In my mind, It is clear that some thing should be changed, and that is why I write you this letter. As a concerned youth group member who is tired of seeing the same act befall member after member. -Keith
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Good. I think it may still be too long, though. Remember - the purpose is not to pour your heart out, but to convince the reader. To do that, every word has to count. Look for sentences that don't add anything.
I hope that helps. Good luck, to you and to Heather. |
Much thanks. I very much appreciate your overlook, it proves very helpfull.
Edited by *Stealth*
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PlentifulBalls
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 2:10pm |
*criticism
And it's a Youth group.
Edited by PlentifulBalls
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sporx wrote:
well...ya i prolly will be a virgin till i'm at least 30.
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*Stealth*
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 2:29pm |
PlentifulBalls wrote:
*criticism
And it's a <span style="font-weight: bold;">Youth</span> group.
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My whole arguement almost fell apart right there.
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bluemunky42
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 2:49pm |
hm. well, in my mom's church, she is the chairperson of a "outreach to college" program. the college kids are sent letters, treats, and are invited to special activities. you could suggest that, i think it would work.
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Hades
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 3:18pm |
Nineteen is still youth.... Hell, 30 is still pretty youthful to an 80 year old.
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sporx
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 3:40pm |
*mumbles* youth groups.
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whack-a-mole
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 4:24pm |
I think you make a good point. I would try to shorten the whole thing, though. If it is only two or three people I think they should be allowed ot stay. If you can get a few more you could start a college group. You could try to convince them to change the age groups up like Hades said. Bottom line, I don't think a church should turn anyone away. That's just not right.
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NASA and the Americans spent millions of dollars and hundreds of hours to develop a pen that would write in space.....The Russians used a pencil.
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Hoytshooter
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 4:55pm |
Our church has different ages, 0-2,3-6,7-10,11-13,and 14-19 then we have a young adult which is 20-26 or sumthin like that, but we dont really care if you graduate highschool and you want to participate in the 14-19 then you can.
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I shoot a Hoyt
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Hysteria
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 5:14pm |
It is good and I think Rambs covered the critism quite well. I also agree with him - shorten it some.
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Klaus
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 7:25pm |
Adresses the point quite well, and the effort you have put into this letter clearly shows how dedicated you are to the cause, if the pastor/church leaders do not at least seriously consider what has been said, they are fools, out of touch with reality, with a one-track mindset...
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merc
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Posted: 23 September 2005 at 8:50pm |
1st forgive me for not reading your post. im in a rush and im realy tired.
i know being in youth group was a blast (i was a royal ranger for many years) how ever as you age your needs change. (royal rangers has 4 or 5 age groups now[?])
anyway college is much different in high school. its a time to mature and prepair for the "real world". while youth group is a great place to be college students need a slightly different setting. not quite as boring as sunday morning survice but not quite the youth group set up.
im realy tired so this is all kinda blury. but anyway kicking kids out of youth group stinks (i was kicked out then i stopped going to church). churches need to have a program for young adults. possably running the youth group. or helping run it.
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saving the world, one warship at a time.
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