Censure

I was just watching cspan and saw this. (taken from wikipedia)

"On March 13, 2006, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) introduced a resolution in the Senate to publicly admonish President Bush for approving domestic wiretaps on American citizens without first seeking a legally required court order. [1] In the resolution, Feingold asserts the president, "repeatedly misled the public prior to the public disclosure of the National Security Agency surveillance program by indicating his Administration was relying on court orders to wiretap suspected terrorists inside the United States." [2]"

What censure is for those who don't know (also wikipedia)

Censure in the United States is a congressional procedure for reprimanding the President of the United States or a member of Congress for inappropriate behaviour. News and other media often use the term "censure" incorrectly, confusing their viewers. When used to condemn the President, however, it serves merely as a condemnation and has no direct effect on the validity of presidency. Unlike impeachment, censure has no basis in the constitution, or in the rules of the Senate and House of Representatives. It derives from the formal condemnation of either congressional body of their own members.

High Voltage wrote: ok wait, court order right? then where's the problem? blame the federal court, it falls under their branch not the executive.

Huh?  Methinks you have no clue what the wiretapping issue was.

But - I am disappointed in Russ for this move, which looks to me like a pure political grandstanding moment that will accomplish nothing except get Feingold invited back to the Bill Maher show.

High Voltage wrote: ok wait, court order right? then where's the problem? blame the federal court, it falls under their branch not the executive. unless maybe someone would like to explain what Senator Feingold meant by "repeatedly misled the public prior to the public disclosure of the National Security Agency surveillance program by indicating his Administration was relying on court orders to wiretap suspected terrorists inside the United States."

LIEK ZOMG, TEH PREZ SHUD T377 US WHAT THE INTEL. COMMUNITY IS DOING BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE.

Geez, I'm a strong beliver in the fact that sometimes you have to act first, ask questions later. 

usafpilot07 wrote: High Voltage wrote: ok wait, court order right? then where's the problem? blame the federal court, it falls under their branch not the executive. unless maybe someone would like to explain what Senator Feingold meant by "repeatedly misled the public prior to the public disclosure of the National Security Agency surveillance program by indicating his Administration was relying on court orders to wiretap suspected terrorists inside the United States." LIEK ZOMG, TEH PREZ SHUD T377 US WHAT THE INTEL. COMMUNITY IS DOING BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. Geez, I'm a strong beliver in the fact that sometimes you have to act first, ask questions later.

Yeah well under fisa he gets three days to ask those questions later and he ignores it

TRAVELER wrote: President Lincoln suspend the writ of habeus corpus during the civil war, and 70,000 American citizens were imprisoned without ever be charged with a crime.

Ruled Unconstitutional by the supreme court

mbro wrote: usafpilot07 wrote: High Voltage wrote: ok wait, court order right? then where's the problem? blame the federal court, it falls under their branch not the executive. unless maybe someone would like to explain what Senator Feingold meant by "repeatedly misled the public prior to the public disclosure of the National Security Agency surveillance program by indicating his Administration was relying on court orders to wiretap suspected terrorists inside the United States." LIEK ZOMG, TEH PREZ SHUD T377 US WHAT THE INTEL. COMMUNITY IS DOING BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. Geez, I'm a strong beliver in the fact that sometimes you have to act first, ask questions later. Yeah well under fisa he gets three days to ask those questions later and he ignores it

Terrorists are using disposable cell phones and changing telephone numbers, a lot of the time, by the time they get any information, its already become obsolete and out dated. In the intel comunity, things need to be done QUICKLY, by the time the FISA court rules on anything, whatever they ruled on is most likely out dated.

usafpilot07 wrote: High Voltage wrote: ok wait, court order right? then where's the problem? blame the federal court, it falls under their branch not the executive. unless maybe someone would like to explain what Senator Feingold meant by "repeatedly misled the public prior to the public disclosure of the National Security Agency surveillance program by indicating his Administration was relying on court orders to wiretap suspected terrorists inside the United States." LIEK ZOMG, TEH PREZ SHUD T377 US WHAT THE INTEL. COMMUNITY IS DOING BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. Geez, I'm a strong beliver in the fact that sometimes you have to act first, ask questions later.

Amen

DBib - FISA allows for searches/taps first, and then you obtain the warrant three days AFTERWARDS.  It was set up specifically to address the need for speed.  The administration has pretty much admitted that the reason they haven't sought FISA warrants under this program is because they know they couldn't meet the burden of proof (probable cause) required by the Fourth Amendment.

USAF, Monk - same.  FISA exists specifically so that we can act first, ask later.  Bush just didn't want to ask later either.

Traveler - Lincoln's actions were ruled unconstitutional.  That makes them illegal, Lincoln just didn't know it yet.  He did not have the power to suspend Habeus Corpus, no matter how much he wanted it to be legal.  Presidents can't "make" something constitutional that isn't.

DBibeau855 wrote: Well thats something that the CIA has been doing for YEARS, along with the NSA, its nothing new. IE. Black Bag Jobs, its when you search for intel and change nothing, no one knows youve been looking.

I'm sure it happens - and it is unconstitutional and against the very principles upon which this country came to be.  The Founders didn't make the Fourth Amendment optional to the federal government.

I think the intel people should be let alone to do their jobs and be secret about it.

That is a horrifically frightening thought.

Well thing about whats going on right now. Theres a huge spotlight on the intel comunity right now. But did you know that some parts of the state department still pour over and study old cold war documents?

Watch, a lot of documents pretaining to current events will be declasified in about 50 years, we will be literaly shocked once these documents are declassified.

Frozen, no.

Edited by DBibeau855 - 13 March 2006 at 10:33pm