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Apex

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Dusty View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 March 2006 at 7:07pm
does the apex barrel really work? if so how good?
can you make it longer with a J&J barrel and adapter?
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You Wont See Me View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Wont See Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2006 at 7:12pm
Yes it works, it works about as good as a flatline, with more options.

Longer barrels do not make you more accurate or shoot further, so I dont see why that question is relevent to anything.
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Dusty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2006 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by You Wont See Me You Wont See Me wrote:

Yes it works, it works about as good as a flatline, with more options.

Longer barrels do not make you more accurate or shoot further, so I dont see why that question is relevent to anything.


i heard that the apex added at least 50ft to your shot, i thought maybe i could add 50 more if i had a longer barel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torquestar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2006 at 7:45pm

The backspin is what's adding the distance.  Since the rubber ramp  providing the backspin is inside the end of the APEX barrel, a longer barrel will do nothing to improve the range.

 

 

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Dusty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dusty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2006 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by Torquestar Torquestar wrote:

The backspin is what's adding the distance.  Since the rubber ramp  providing the backspin is inside the end of the APEX barrel, a longer barrel will do nothing to improve the range.

 

 



o thanks for the help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2006 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by Torquestar Torquestar wrote:

The backspin is what's adding the distance.  Since the rubber ramp  providing the backspin is inside the end of the APEX barrel, a longer barrel will do nothing to improve the range.

 

 

It will actually just take a little more CO2 to get the ball out the barrel.  Stay in the 8" to 14" range.  I love my 12" Bigshot.  It's perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Dusty Dusty wrote:

Originally posted by Torquestar Torquestar wrote:

The backspin is what's adding the distance.  Since the rubber ramp  providing the backspin is inside the end of the APEX barrel, a longer barrel will do nothing to improve the range.

o thanks for the help

A longer barrel does nothing to increase range. If the barrels are the same differing only in length and the ball leaves the muzzle of each at the same velocity the flight distance is exactly the same. The Flatline and Apex barrels extend the distance by imparting backspin on the ball. Backspin generates lift so the ball does not arc downward after it leaves the end of the barrel. Gravity is compensated for by the lift generated.

The flight path of the backspining ball is extended to the point at which the ball runs out of forward momentum...thus giving an impression of the ball just suddenly dropping out of the air. At any point along the trajectory a backspinning ball has the same forward velocity as the ball fired from a smoothbore...until the smooth bore fired ball hits the ground.

There is some debate that the backspinning ball retains velocity a little better,(backspin reduces drag?) but the difference in terminal velocity is insignificant.(Percentage of overall drag reduction at these velocities, though calculable, is insignificant.)

A little interesting information for those not familiar with ballistic trajectory physics. When a rifle is mounted so that the barrel is parallel to the ground and fired across a flat plain (Utah salt flats?), no matter what the forward velocity, the bullet hits the ground at exactly the same instant that the same bullet dropped from barrel height at the instant of firing hits.

The same is true of paintballs, EXCEPT when the ball is backspinning. The lift generated keeps the ball flying forward well past the time interval at which the dropped ball hit the ground.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paintballinbill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2006 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by Bruce A. Frank Bruce A. Frank wrote:

Originally posted by Dusty Dusty wrote:

Originally posted by Torquestar Torquestar wrote:

The backspin is what's adding the distance.  Since the rubber ramp  providing the backspin is inside the end of the APEX barrel, a longer barrel will do nothing to improve the range.

o thanks for the help

A longer barrel does nothing to increase range. If the barrels are the same differing only in length and the ball leaves the muzzle of each at the same velocity the flight distance is exactly the same. The Flatline and Apex barrels extend the distance by imparting backspin on the ball. Backspin generates lift so the ball does not arc downward after it leaves the end of the barrel. Gravity is compensated for by the lift generated.

The flight path of the backspining ball is extended to the point at which the ball runs out of forward momentum...thus giving an impression of the ball just suddenly dropping out of the air. At any point along the trajectory a backspinning ball has the same forward velocity as the ball fired from a smoothbore...until the smooth bore fired ball hits the ground.

There is some debate that the backspinning ball retains velocity a little better,(backspin reduces drag?) but the difference in terminal velocity is insignificant.(Percentage of overall drag reduction at these velocities, though calculable, is insignificant.)

A little interesting information for those not familiar with ballistic trajectory physics. When a rifle is mounted so that the barrel is parallel to the ground and fired across a flat plain (Utah salt flats?), no matter what the forward velocity, the bullet hits the ground at exactly the same instant that the same bullet dropped from barrel height at the instant of firing hits.

The same is true of paintballs, EXCEPT when the ball is backspinning. The lift generated keeps the ball flying forward well past the time interval at which the dropped ball hit the ground.

yeah, that's all true. if you don't believe him, take two marbles. flick one off the end of a table, and at the same time, drop the second one from the same height. if you do it correctly, the marbles will hit the floor at the exact same time. the marble's flight path(as well as the bullet's path) is parabolic, not diagonal. pretty interesting stuff...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatlandpercy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2006 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by Bruce A. Frank Bruce A. Frank wrote:

[QUOTE=Dusty] [QUOTE=Torquestar]

A little interesting information for those not familiar with ballistic trajectory physics. When a rifle is mounted so that the barrel is parallel to the ground and fired across a flat plain (Utah salt flats?), no matter what the forward velocity, the bullet hits the ground at exactly the same instant that the same bullet dropped from barrel height at the instant of firing hits.




only true in a vacume. air resistance keeps
the rifle bullet airborn longer than the one
that's dropped because of it's aerodynamics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2006 at 2:52pm

Not only true in a vacuum.  It is universally true, subject to minor variation for environmental variables.

Flatline paintballs drop slower due to the backspin, which creates an effect similar to an airplane wing (the Bernoulli effect).

Bullets rotate along the axis of travel, which does not create this effect.  The rotation creates a gyroscope effect, which helps with accurace, but it does not create lift.



Edited by Rambino - 16 March 2006 at 2:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2006 at 3:29pm

Originally posted by flatlandpercy flatlandpercy wrote:

only true in a vacume. air resistance keeps
the rifle bullet airborn longer than the one
that's dropped because of it's aerodynamics.

At the distances of a conventional high powered rifle shot the difference is virtually undetectable without some very sophisticated equipment and can be/are ignored in ballistic time of flight calculations (where is this cannon shell gonna' hit)

The difference in the horizontal time of flight of a backspinning paintball versus one dropped from barrel height is significant and observable with no sophisticated equipment (eyeballs only...wait, actually, eyeballs are pretty sophisticated equipment)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote broadsword149 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2006 at 5:22pm
is the apex as prone to breaking balls as the flatline?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2006 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by broadsword149 broadsword149 wrote:

is the apex as prone to breaking balls as the flatline?

No, but still worse than a Striaght barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torquestar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2006 at 9:36pm
The Apex has an adjustable rubber ramp which is introduced to the ball via a slider at the end of the barrel.  The more you adjust the slider, which pushes the rubber ramp farther into the path of the ball, the more likely you'll break a ball.  Really crappy paint might restrict you to only a notch or three, while higher quality paint might let you adjust it farther down (putting more spin on the ball).  That's what's so nice about the Apex.  You can go from no spin (straight through barrel), or have adjustable backspin depending on the situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiestyboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2006 at 9:18pm
i have one for my stock 98c. it will shoot low grade paint fine put as soon as 1 ball breaks in the barrel it becomes almost as bad as my stock barrel. samething with just getting it wet in general ( like how i played winter woodsball with a few inches of snow. i actually had ice on the barrel. cuz it was 10F below with the windchill) dont use a squigee on it or it will mess up the rubber thing. you have to wash it out with a sink or garden hose. im still trying to figure out the best field way to clean it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2006 at 10:12pm

Originally posted by Fiestyboy Fiestyboy wrote:

i have one for my stock 98c. it will shoot low grade paint fine put as soon as 1 ball breaks in the barrel it becomes almost as bad as my stock barrel. samething with just getting it wet in general ( like how i played winter woodsball with a few inches of snow. i actually had ice on the barrel. cuz it was 10F below with the windchill) dont use a squigee on it or it will mess up the rubber thing. you have to wash it out with a sink or garden hose. im still trying to figure out the best field way to clean it.

I have found the mop type barrel cleaners to work well.

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