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So Clinton Dropped the ball....

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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: So Clinton Dropped the ball....
    Posted: 12 January 2007 at 9:50pm

....in regards to 9/11?

 

Another gem by Keith Olberman....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:01pm
Click..............did not go off, must be another dud....

Nice try...but too old
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Hui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:01pm

I watched about the first 46 seconds.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:01pm
i thought it said clinton dropped his balls
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RicWhic414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:02pm
hmm... very interesting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:12pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Click..............did not go off, must be another dud....

Nice try...but too old

 

The date of the video doesn't refute its factual content....Did ya watch it? Wanna respond to the arguments themselves?

Oh and, for those who didn't watch, its worth 9 minutes....seriously... 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:23pm
Seen it before, this issue will go on just like the FDR did he know Pearl Harbor fiasco. Depends on the point of view and what you care to believe.

Clinton had a chance for Bin Laden, should of, could of, didn't history, works both ways. And each side can offer facts to support any claim.

Whose "lies" do we believe



The Clinton administration talked about firm evidence linking Saddam Hussein's regime to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network years before President Bush made the same statements.
    The issue arose again this month after the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States reported there was no "collaborative relationship" between the old Iraqi regime and bin Laden.

    Democrats have cited the staff report to accuse Mr. Bush of making inaccurate statements about a linkage. Commission members, including a Democrat and two Republicans, quickly came to the administration's defense by saying there had been such contacts.
    In fact, during President Clinton's eight years in office, there were at least two official pronouncements of an alarming alliance between Baghdad and al Qaeda. One came from William S. Cohen, Mr. Clinton's defense secretary. He cited an al Qaeda-Baghdad link to justify the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan.
Clinton first linked al Qaeda to Saddam

By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 10:23pm
They bring up the warning of terrorist patterns of threats of hijacking and other types of attacks.

Yeah, cause thats specific. Im sure Bush gets memos of that threat all the time. Seriously. Also, to blame one man, even if it is the president is just wrong. Several people have enough power to get stuff done, they just need to get off their butt and do something.

So if your going to tell me that a senator doesnt have enough power to get something done, then what is the point of congress. What is the point of the Judicial system. What is the point of elections at all?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 11:03pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Seen it before, this issue will go on just like the FDR did he know Pearl Harbor fiasco. Depends on the point of view and what you care to believe.

No, not really. There's documented evidence that the Clinton Administration clearly warned the incoming Bush Administration of the threat and they completely threw it on the back burner. Hell, they gave them a set of instructions on what to do next. Bush and Co. completely ignored the threat until it was too late. Bush is also the one who didn't retaliate for the U.S.S. Cole, which is also usually pinned on Clinton. Bush had no grasp of the real threats that were out there when he got into office and neither did his administration. Even though they were warned, like always, they knew best. Hell, he was breifed on this crap before he even took office....Watch the video.

Clinton had a chance for Bin Laden, should of, could of, didn't history, works both ways. And each side can offer facts to support any claim.

Yeah, in exchange for stopping our sanctions against the Taliban. Not to mention he did order a bombing mission to kill him, but they missed...


Whose "lies" do we believe

They're not all lies....


The Clinton administration talked about firm evidence linking Saddam Hussein's regime to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network years before President Bush made the same statements.
    The issue arose again this month after the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States reported there was no "collaborative relationship" between the old Iraqi regime and bin Laden.

    Democrats have cited the staff report to accuse Mr. Bush of making inaccurate statements about a linkage. Commission members, including a Democrat and two Republicans, quickly came to the administration's defense by saying there had been such contacts.
    In fact, during President Clinton's eight years in office, there were at least two official pronouncements of an alarming alliance between Baghdad and al Qaeda. One came from William S. Cohen, Mr. Clinton's defense secretary. He cited an al Qaeda-Baghdad link to justify the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan.
Clinton first linked al Qaeda to Saddam

By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Ok, but he didn't use this as justification for invading Iraq...He ws wrong too, but Bush Co. really screwed the pooch with the same incorrect info....


"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

Yeah, he bombed him after that. He didn't send us into an extremely costly quagmire. Actually, if he did have WMDs back then, it seems that Clinton's actions worked...

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

He actually took the generals' advice....presidents are supposed to do that...

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

Ok. This would explain why Bush focused on idiotic missle defense plans, instead of the real threat. Doesn't make him any more correct in doing so...

 

Edit: Monk, we know that. Usually when I say "Bush", I mean he and his administration....However, "the buck stops here" is as true now as it was when Give 'Em Hell Harry coin it...



Edited by .Ryan - 12 January 2007 at 11:06pm

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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2007 at 11:30pm
Why would Bush respond to the USS Cole, was on Clinton's watch.

Still waiting on the total package, there is the question of the missing Sandy Berger files, we could just be getting what remains and information modifacation.

Kinda like the single shooter Kennedy report, physical and forensic evidense can go both ways.

And how did the Iraqi WMD's and programs instantly dissappear the day of Bush's innaguration?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 12:04am

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Why would Bush respond to the USS Cole, was on Clinton's watch.

Still waiting on the total package, there is the question of the missing Sandy Berger files, we could just be getting what remains and information modifacation.

Kinda like the single shooter Kennedy report, physical and forensic evidense can go both ways.

And how did the Iraqi WMD's and programs instantly dissappear the day of Bush's innaguration?

 

Cole: Investigation was ongoing when Clinton left.

 

WMDs: Those quotes were from 1998....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rock Slide Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 12:30am

What's scary is that this crap will continue going on until WE decide to elect honest people who will look out for us and not their own, got to keep this cushy job, interest. That goes on on BOTH the left and right. Beware of stupid people in large groups. Too many sheep out there. About time the concept of independent thought came about. The only people I really trust are close friends. Yes there are probably a few honest politicians out there that really try. But they are outnumbered by the heard.

·        Do you trust politicians?

o       Nope.

·        Then why elect them?

o       They're the only ones on the ticket.

·        Why not write somebody in?

o       It wouldn't matter.

·        Wouldn’t you rather have a clear conscience knowing you tried?

You fall right into their trap. Voting for the "lesser of two evils" is bravo sierra.

 

I bring annihilation

and cheap red wine!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 12:36am
Agreed. I've been saying for years that they need to get money out of politics. This would not only help keep our politicians honest, but it would also give third parties a go at actually competing with the big two.....Kill lobbying and make all elections publicly funded, that would just about do it....Real simple, but I doubt we'll ever see it....maybe though...I tend to think that there are more real honest politicians in it for their people than most think there are, so that makes me a little more hopeful than many...

Edited by .Ryan - 13 January 2007 at 12:37am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 12:42am
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Seen it before, this issue will go on just like the FDR did he know Pearl Harbor fiasco. Depends on the point of view and what you care to believe.

Clinton had a chance for Bin Laden, should of, could of, didn't history, works both ways. And each side can offer facts to support any claim.

Whose "lies" do we believe



The Clinton administration talked about firm evidence linking Saddam Hussein's regime to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network years before President Bush made the same statements.
    The issue arose again this month after the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States reported there was no "collaborative relationship" between the old Iraqi regime and bin Laden.

    Democrats have cited the staff report to accuse Mr. Bush of making inaccurate statements about a linkage. Commission members, including a Democrat and two Republicans, quickly came to the administration's defense by saying there had been such contacts.
    In fact, during President Clinton's eight years in office, there were at least two official pronouncements of an alarming alliance between Baghdad and al Qaeda. One came from William S. Cohen, Mr. Clinton's defense secretary. He cited an al Qaeda-Baghdad link to justify the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan.
Clinton first linked al Qaeda to Saddam

By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.


United we stand; divided we fall.

I'm tired of people like you who are so stuck on one side of the fence. Open your mind.

Forget democrats and republicans.

Let's try Americans.


Edited by Bolt3 - 13 January 2007 at 12:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simma Down!! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 12:50am
Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:



Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Seen it before, this issue will go on just like the FDR did he know Pearl Harbor fiasco. Depends on the point of view and what you care to believe.

Clinton had a chance for Bin Laden, should of, could of, didn't history, works both ways. And each side can offer facts to support any claim.

Whose "lies" do we believe



The Clinton administration talked about firm evidence linking Saddam Hussein's regime to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network years before President Bush made the same statements.
    The issue arose again this month after the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States reported there was no "collaborative relationship" between the old Iraqi regime and bin Laden.

    Democrats have cited the staff report to accuse Mr. Bush of making inaccurate statements about a linkage. Commission members, including a Democrat and two Republicans, quickly came to the administration's defense by saying there had been such contacts.
    In fact, during President Clinton's eight years in office, there were at least two official pronouncements of an alarming alliance between Baghdad and al Qaeda. One came from William S. Cohen, Mr. Clinton's defense secretary. He cited an al Qaeda-Baghdad link to justify the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan.
Clinton first linked al Qaeda to Saddam

By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
    President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
    Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
    Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.
United we stand; divided we fall.I'm tired of people like you who are so stuck on one side of the fence. Open your mind.Forget democrats and republicans.Let's try Americans.


Agreed.....too many people see republicans and democrats. Their party will never be the worse of the two. Its complete BS, maybe if they worried about the actual problem then maybe we would get somewhere.

Yes Bush went about the war in Iraq totally wrong and the Democrats can blast him all they want because I feel he did botch it. But in all reality, I want the democrats to quit their moaning and compaining and actually put a plan worth considering on the table. So far all ive seen is alot of finger pointing and no actions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 1:04am

I agree, but I will say that a lot of real complaints and statements of dissent get labled at partisan bickering. I hate Bush, his croneys, and most of his party because I feel that they have done a lot of harm to this country in their tenure, among other reasons, but not because they are Republicans or I'm a Democrat. I identify myself as a Democrat because I feel that they are the party that has the best ideas and the right mindset for the country right now, not because they are Democrats. This isn't a my team-their team mentality, at least not with me, it's about right and wrong, and the facts of reality.

 

Also, the Dems have done a lot more than just moan abotu Bush, they have continuously been putting alternatives out there, but since they don't have the power to enact them, or atleast they didn't until recently, and because the media likes to focus on the moaning, you don't see it as much. If you care to really listen, they do have ideas, not just complaints.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 3:03pm
Strange.....When an American is overseas, he is seen as a single entity, an American, only when he/she is in thier own country are they placed into racial/cultutal/ideological catagories, by a system that fosters conflict, and can not and almost refuses to unify.

I too get tired of the political diatribe, by those who have no comparison. Our history is full of he said, he did, he was wrong, but only recently has the politics turned to "impeach" for any percieved injustice or bad decesion, and loses sight of itself.

Polititians spend 1/3-1/2 of thier term in a singular goal of personal advancement (re-election needs) over the needs of the people they represent. So the two year house cycle requires up to one year of campaigning over governing. Fine example is Hillary, who if so deciding will abandon her real job in congress for her personal goal for the next two years, and place those who placed thier trust in her secondary.

For 40 plus years the Dems controled congress, and all the problems of the 60's, 70's' 80's are still with us, and they held the pursestrings and had the ability to enact true change. And only find fault with the less than a decade the Republicans were the majority.
A question I ask constantly if all our social ills were solved overnight what would the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons, etc do for employment, it is in thier personal self interest to keep these divisions out there.

In diversity the prof asked what would be a counter to MLK day, I play the radical right winger by request to get discussion and debates going, and I stated Nathan Bedford Forest Day and not one person in the room knew who is was, but they know the PC MLK info, and no counter for reference.

The news, both sided of the event is bias for iots own agenda, and those here who see people like myself as single minded, check the mirror.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 3:42pm
I'm starting to see a formula with your posts OS....Something like this:

[Statement that partisanship is bad]

[Somewhat respectable non-partisan statement about politics as a whole]

[Attack on single, popular Democrat]

[Attack on Democratic Party as a whole]

[Statement implying that all others are idiot sheep]

[/Right Wing Rant]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 4:04pm
Close....just a differant axis of attack on our politics to counter the constant anti-Bush administration slant here. I understand that many here only have seen the current administration, but are ready to attack any challenge/comparison to thier learned bias.

Too many here are sheep, for either side, and refuse to see anything other than thier position. I personally look at both sides with a critical eye, but find it fascinating the non-referenced ideas based on singular information that fits only the individuals need.



Historical reference is too easily dismissed if it does not fit the view required.

Look at the story on the 100 hour plan of Pelosi, and all the "new" modifacations, I beleive they have been in session for approximately 48 hours, and the clock is only at 17 hours. That behavior is a constant on both sides but only found to be critical if a Republican makes a simular statement claim (Contract with America).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070112/ap_on_go_co/counting_the _hours

Edited by oldsoldier - 13 January 2007 at 4:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heres To You Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2007 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

I'm starting to see a formula with your posts OS....Something like this:

[Statement that partisanship is bad]

[Somewhat respectable non-partisan statement about politics as a whole]

[Attack on single, popular Democrat]

[Attack on Democratic Party as a whole]

[Statement implying that all others are idiot sheep]

[/Right Wing Rant]


You act is if yours don't follow the same process.  Just change every Democrat and put a Republican.

Your lucky that the majority of this forum agrees with your opinions.  If oldsoldier post alot of articles, everyone says "Gah, quit posting these" and he get's most annoying forumer of the year (not that the vote was legit, but whatever).  Yet you do the same thing with nearly every thread you post and take nothing for it.  Good luck.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."
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