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Global Warming vs Nuclear Winter

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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 February 2007 at 6:27pm
I am just amazed at the current hysteria over global warming, as I sit here in 9deg Nebraska.

I still remmember the scientific community of the 70's warning us of the impending New Ice Age, as the world cooled, and all the devestation we will expierience.

Now in a total 180 the same scientific community warning us of Global Warming, as the worlds heats up, and all the devestation we will expierience.

My solution, let the Mid Eastern countries develope Nuclear Weapons, some one gets PO's at someone, the launch, the escalation, the resulting Nuclear Winter, effectively replacing the Polar Caps, lowering the base temperatures, destroying all the industrial centers creating polution, and finally the a natural selection process of survival. Where wacks like myself possibly live a fine life in the new wilderness, self sufficient, and the dependant culture of today wanders thier wasteland wondering where or who has thier next handout or entitlement.

Just a bored rant after todays class in indoctrination and wrapping my head in Duct Tape (to keep my head from exploding)after having to sit thru another school sponsored redition of "An Inconvienient Truth".
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Kristofer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 6:30pm
I dono. They nominated him for the nobel peace prize, he must be getting somewhere with his global warming work..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hairball!!! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 7:03pm
The sun is getting hotter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotDaveEllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 7:15pm
I'd also like to know why some of the hottest recorded temps you see on like the news and stuff are from the 1800's and early 1900's because that was the prime period when everyone had their big bad automobiles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Wont See Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 7:56pm
I blame the schools.
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Thor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 8:14pm
I'd love to live in the woods and have monkey butlers.

Watch these townies try to figure out why their cell phones don't work anymore.

Then I can hunt the ultimate game: Man...
A second class drive is always better than a first class walk.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

I'd love to live in the woods and have monkey butlers.

Watch these townies try to figure out why their cell phones don't work anymore.

Then I can hunt the ultimate game: Man...


Not much of a challenge for those who lived in a city their entire life.
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Bolt3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 8:59pm
You can't deny it's not happening. That is called ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stealth* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:

You can't deny it's not happening. That is called ignorance.



Yes, I can.


And it's called not being a idiot.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by *Stealth* *Stealth* wrote:




And it's called not being a idiot.





Nay.

It is called being an ostrich.



"If I don't believe it is happening hard enough, it is not really happening"




Edited by Tae Kwon Do - 01 February 2007 at 9:05pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Savage93fvss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 9:10pm

I still believe it's just nature, sure the pollution might be doing a little bit, but not much. I call shens on the severity of global warming. It's mainly just another cycle of the planet, like the ice age. Now we're in the "warm" age leading to the "hot" age.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stealth* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by *Stealth* *Stealth* wrote:




And it's called not being a idiot.





Nay.

It is called being an ostrich.



"If I don't believe it is happening hard enough, it is not really happening"





The world has been theorized heating up, getting colder, or ending since the dark ages.

Fact of the matter is, humans like to say we understand the world meteorological patterns, when we don't have a clue. Global warming is just the "dooms day" theory of our generation.

I'll believe the science community can predict the global heating trends of this planet, when they can accurately forecast the weather two days in advance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 9:13pm
What is the truth. You can search the internet and the databases and find credible and legitimate evidense supporting either therory. The New Ice Age, Global Warming, each can justify its exsistance. Like I said in the 70's the threat was the new Ice Age, all the evidense, etc, today the same scientific community spout global warming.

All is relevant, credible and to what end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 9:19pm
Overpopulation will destroy humanity far before any natural cause.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 9:54pm
I'd like to hear something about this new report that doesn't fit on a bumper sticker or headline. From all I've actually heard on the news, scientists now think with 90% certainty that burning fossile fuels is causing global warming. As to whether or not it's also factoring in natural global warming, I have no idea. Sometimes I have to wonder if scientists overhype this thinking the end(reducing pollution) justifies the means(scare tactics).  I want to know what how long the computer models will give us before the polar caps melt if we were to stop producing greenhouse gasses tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 10:11pm
The scientists who head these warnings are far more brilliant than anyone on this forum..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stealth* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by Bolt3 Bolt3 wrote:

The scientists who head these warnings are far more brilliant than anyone on this forum..



They predict the future, and get people to believe them.


I'd say so.
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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 10:30pm
And besides, if they can not convince the government on the importance of their "research" those large grant checks do not come, and they may have to go out and get a real job.

The "Chicken Little" sky is falling therorys are a sure fire government check grabber. Instill the fear, ramp it up, have a potential answer and watch the money roll in. The ultimate shell game.

Lets see Fermi stated through his research that the Atom Bomb would ignite the atmosphere, and was convinced of it, July 16, 1945 proved him wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 10:33pm
I lol'd









hard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2007 at 10:55pm

I don't think the question is whether global warming exists...it does in some form exist, but the question breaks down into several vital parts-

1-How rapidly are climates changing?

2-Is pollution impacting the change?

3-How much more radical will the change become over the next 100 years?

All 3 of these questions affect each other, but #2 is the talking point of the day. I think the offical .gov site explains the complexity of this issue best-

Since the Industrial Revolution (around 1750), human activities have substantially added to the amount of heat-trapping greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. The burning of fossil fuels and biomass (living matter such as vegetation) has also resulted in emissions of aerosols that absorb and emit heat, and reflect light.

The addition of greenhouse gases and aerosols has changed the composition of the atmosphere. The changes in the atmosphere have likely influenced temperature, precipitation, storms and sea level. However, these features of the climate also vary naturally, so determining what fraction of climate changes are due to natural variability versus human activities is challenging.

There has been substantial natural climate change throughout history. Bear in mind we live on a planet that has more than likely experienced the rapid creation of land masses, an entire ice age, and countless natural enviromental changes throughout its long history. So it stands to reason that small changes in temperature are minimal in the overall scope of things.

Here's a projection from the site-

Figure 1: Long-term Scenarios for Greenhouse Gas Concentrations. This figure shows three graphs of projected trends in atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases under seven different emissions scenarios from the years 2000 through 2100. The first graph shows projected trends for carbon dioxide, the second shows projected trends for methane, and the third shows projected trends for nitrous oxide. The emissions scenarios were developed by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. All three graphs show concentrations of these gases increasing until at least the year 2040. Under some scenarios carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide concentrations start to level off toward the end of the century. Under three of the emission scenarios, methane concentrations decline after the year 2040.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Carbon dioxide concentrations (see Figure 2) in the atmosphere will increase throughout the 21st century according to all IPCC scenarios. The scenarios project CO2 concentrations ranging from 540 to 970 parts per million (ppm) by 2100, which is 42 to 156 percent higher than current levels (IPCC, 2001).

  • Methane concentrations (see Figure 2) in the atmosphere are projected to range from 1.57 ppm to 3.73 ppm by 2100, or about 12 percent lower to 209 percent higher than the current concentration (IPCC, 2001). For more information on methane projections, see EPA’s Methane Site.
  • Nitrous Oxide concentrations (see Figure 2) are projected to be 0.35 to 0.46 ppm in 2100, values that are 0.08 to 0.19 ppm or 12 to 46 percent higher than pre-industrial concentrations (IPCC, 2001). For more information on nitrous oxide projections, see EPA’s Nitrous Oxide Site.
  • Fluorinated gases, such as HFCs, PFCs and SF6 (also known as high global warming potential gases), are expected to increase significantly in part because some of these gases are substitutes for chlorofluorocarbons, which are being phased out through the Montreal Protocol. For more information on fluorinated gas projections, see EPA’s High Global Warming Potential Site.
  • Tropospheric ozone projections range from a 12% decrease to a 62% increase by 2100.
  • Sulfate aerosols are generally projected to decrease whereas projections for black carbon (soot) are uncertain.
  •  

    Now for the practical stuff-

    Temperature Change Projections

    The National Academy of Sciences noted that because there is considerable uncertainty in current understanding of how the climate system varies naturally and reacts to emissions of greenhouse gases and aerosols, current estimates of the magnitude of future warming should be regarded as tentative and subject to future adjustments (either upward or downward). (NRC, 2001) The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) made the following projections of future warming (IPCC, 2001):

    • The average surface temperature of the Earth is likely to increase by 2.5 to 10.4°F (1.4-5.8°C) by the end of the 21st century, relative to 1990 (see Figure 1). This projected rate of warming is about two to ten times greater than the warming observed during the 20th century and may represent a warming rate unprecedented for at least the last 10,000 years.
    • Warming will not be evenly distributed around the globe:
      • Land areas will warm more than oceans in part due to water's ability to store heat.
      • High latitudes will warm more than low latitudes in part due to positive feedback effects from melting ice (as discussed above).
      • The northernmost regions of North America, and northern and central Asia, could warm substantially more than the global average. In contrast, projections suggest that the warming will be less than the global average in south Asia and southern South America.
    • The warming will differ by season with winters warming more than summers.
    • For additional explanatory information about some of the projected spatial and seasonal differences in warming, see the NOAA Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory (GFDL) fact sheet "Patterns of Global Warming" (PDF, 1 pp., 15 KB, About PDF)

    Figure 1: Line graph showing the range of projected temperature changes from 1990 to the year 2100, as published by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. In the year 2100, the range is from 1.4 to 5.8 degrees Celsius above the temperature in 1990.
    Figure 1: Temperature projections, Source: IPCC Third Assessment Report (2001)

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    The Earth's Commitment to Warming

    According to several recent studies, even if the composition of today's atmosphere was fixed (which would imply a dramatic reduction in current emissions), surface air temperatures would continue to warm (by up to 1ºF). The studies suggest that a portion of the warming associated with past human activity has not yet been realized due to heat being stored in the ocean, and that the Earth is committed to continued warming. In addition, many of the greenhouse gases that have already been emitted remain in the atmosphere for decades or longer, and will continue to contribute to warming for their duration.

    Now, that's the EPA side of things. I remain fairly neutral on this subject-I don't consider myself qualified to make any assumptions, I do however question the logic that these tiny changes to the earth's temperature are a:) going to create a rapid, permenant change in our climate as we know it and b:) warrant an immediate change in lifestyle. I am personally content with the efforts that car manufactures and groups like the EPA are making. I'm not selling my SUV, in other words.

    /long post

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