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Brilliant solution to gas problem

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Reb Cpl View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 March 2007 at 9:24am

This isn't entirely my idea, I'm not clever enough.

Everyone's complaining that our dependency on foreign oil is causing not only economic problems at the pump, but ecological problems in the world. Greenhouse gasses are drowning polar bears and making crushed ice out of the polar regions.

The problem is, that we need a cleaner burning, cheaper alternative to petrolium products.

The further problem is, that oil companies have so much money invested in the production of fossil fuels, that they can, and for all we know are, preventing the production of alternative fuel sources to protect their profits.

What if.....and this cramps capitalizm HARDCORE, but it sure would be a solution.

Every dollar in profits that oil companies make selling petolium based products, they keep fifty cents. The government gets the rest to put into research and development on alternative sources.

HOWEVER. Every dollar made by these companies on the production and sales of alternative sources, they keep it all.

This would serve two purposes.

1. It would give the government the funds it needs to speed up production of alternative sources.

2. It would provide incentive for oil companies to either shift their focus to alternative sources that would benefit the economy and environment, or at the very least diversify.

But.....it'll never happen. Ever.

But its not a rotten idea.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 9:44am
California proposed a very similar tax last fall in a referendum.  It failed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 9:57am
Yeah, you have to know it wouldn't get off the ground. It's explode in the hangar simply because it rubs against the grain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 10:17am

Well, there is no garuntee that the government wont just pocket the money gained from the gas companies. That and the the companies would raise the cost of gas to an ungodly amount out of spite.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 10:20am

Even thought that particular proposal failed, there are numerous government initiatives to foster alternative energy sources, at the state and federal level.  These initiatives include grants for R&D, renewable energy requirements for utilities, subsidies and tax credits for investment, and others.

One can question whether we are doing "enough", but there is a certain amount of time and money being put into this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 11:13am
Reb - I like the idea, though it does raise the possibility of oil producers simply jacking the price up. This would hurt everyone involved, but I think they would eventually take us in a waiting game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 11:17am

Oh, its far from a flawless idea, thats one thing that makes me glad its not my idea.

Maybe.....a price cap? Hell, if we're gonna violate the principals of capitalism once, lets do it again.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 11:32am
Sounds good to me. The Dems don't have a big enough majority to make it happen at he moment though....

I think, short of doing what you're talking about, the government should subsidize the companies that are making alternative fuels now in a really big way. Help them build plants and distribution centers all over, make cheap or free conversion kits for existing gas stations(and cars) so they can pump ethanol/biodeisel/hydrogen/ect, set up alternative power plants all over the country, and whatever else they can think of. They should also mandate that they do it to the point that it would actually make a difference. This wouldn't be a slap in the face to our beloved capitalism, because it would be supporting small and medium size businesses, either. It would cost a lot, so it would require some new taxes and funding ideas, and they would have to keep one of the nation's most powerful lobbies from squashing it, but I think it's doable....

More dramatic action, even than your plan, has been executed by the government in times of crisis, which we are in, global warming be damned, so I think it can and should happen.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 11:33am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Oh, its far from a flawless idea, thats one thing that makes me glad its not my idea.


Maybe.....a price cap? Hell, if we're gonna violate the principals of capitalism once, lets do it again.



Regulation of the fuel oil industry with a focus on mandating the building of new refineries. That'd take care of the price at the pump. The actual fluctuations in light-sweet-crude actually do very little to affect the overall cost of gas in all reality. The individual companies that OWN the stations and pumps, however, use it as a reason to raise gas prices. Did you notice that when the bottom fell out of the oil futures trading scene a few months back we only got down to around $2.25/Gal on a national average? The reason is that not only have they raised prices so high they have set a new standard "low" price for the fuel at the pump, but also the fact that there are not enough refineries to keep the production of automotive fuels low.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 11:44am

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:


Regulation of the fuel oil industry...

Would guarantee higher prices for everybody.  If there is one thing that capitalism does really, really well, it is keeping prices low.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 11:46am
It's not totally about the price at the pump though, man. You have to consider the strategic crap hole out need for Middle Eastern oil and the environmental impacts of burning old-style fossil fuels...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 11:48am

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

It's not totally about the price at the pump though, man. You have to consider the strategic crap hole out need for Middle Eastern oil and the environmental impacts of burning old-style fossil fuels...

Addressed to me?

I agree with your general point - I was just responding to tallen, who appeared to be making a price-specific point.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 12:11pm

tallen, we can't build new refineries, or even update the ones we HAVE. It looks like its for the same reason we're not tapping into out own natural reserves of crude oil. Environmental lobbyists are fighting the production of such facilities tooth and nail, and as a testament to the power they have, we haven't made progress in terms of new refineries in many years.

I'm not saying that the hippies are the only reason we're stuck in this oil quagmire, but its a pretty solit reason from where I sit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welcome guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 12:58pm

Environmental lobbyists only protest. Since when do the Gov. listen to them. [Hint spotted Owl]

 Exxon and the like are given Billions to stop Alternative fuel and thier production of it not to mention denouncing anything new.



Edited by welcome guest - 19 March 2007 at 1:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

It's not totally about the price at the pump though, man. You have to consider the strategic crap hole out need for Middle Eastern oil and the environmental impacts of burning old-style fossil fuels...

Addressed to me?

I agree with your general point - I was just responding to tallen, who appeared to be making a price-specific point.

 



Addressed to tallen actually, you just beat me to the spot...heh.


Edited by .Ryan - 19 March 2007 at 1:05pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by welcome guest welcome guest wrote:

 Exxon and the like are given Billions to stop Alternative fuel and thier production

Please, do tell - details?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welcome guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by welcome guest welcome guest wrote:

 Exxon and the like are given Billions to stop Alternative fuel and thier production

Please, do tell - details?

You ask and now you shall recieve.

POLITICAL PEDDLING
The return ExxonMobil gets for the millions it spends on lobbyists and campaign contributions comes back in the billions. The industry as a whole receives up to $113 billion per year in direct federal subsidies, according to experts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote a5Tpp789 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 1:50pm

people will start moving forward once that effects us

(sigh) humans are the dumbest of all animals

if you put 500 dollars into an A5 it is still an A5
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by welcome guest welcome guest wrote:

You ask and now you shall recieve.
POLITICAL PEDDLING
The return ExxonMobil gets for the millions it spends on lobbyists and campaign contributions comes back in the billions. The industry as a whole receives up to $113 billion per year in direct federal subsidies, according to experts.

Non-responsive.  $113bn/year in "subsidies" just means they get a bunch of money.  How much of that is actually paying them NOT to do alternatives?  I'm guessing close to zero, unless you are talking about just general incentives for pro-oil behavior?

Many millions, at least, of those subsidies are actually supporting alternative energy.  Millions more have nothing to with energy at all.  So that number is quite misleading.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welcome guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 2:09pm

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

of those subsidies are actually supporting alternative energy.

My turn.

Now show me one alternative fuel patent that was used that Exxon bought the rights to.

Why is it the big oil co. are buying patent rights to alternative fuel, and not use them? Is this thier way of support alternative fuel?

[Simple search alternative fuel patents]



Edited by welcome guest - 19 March 2007 at 2:14pm
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