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GTA IV: DO WANT

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NotDaveEllis View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 February 2008 at 3:37pm
Long list of stuff about the game

- The game is set in 2007, In Liberty City.

- A big part of the game is delivering story in new ways and allowing the player to plot their own destiny

- The map is smaller than San Andreas, But a lot more detailed.

- The Statue of Liberty is called The Statue of Happiness.

- Rockstar have been working very hard on the targeting system - expect it to be a big improvement from previous games.

- There will be NO planes. Rockstar have said they want the game to be realistic.

- You will use your cell phone to call contacts.

- DUMBO (Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass) is 'BOABO (Beneath the Offramp of the Algonquin Bridge)'.

- GTA IV contains 4 parts of New York (Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens, The Bronx) and a part of New Jersey. Which have been renamed in the game to 'Broker', 'Algonquin', 'Dukes', 'Bohan' and 'Alderney'.

- realism has been upgraded, in terms of Pedestrians not walking around like mindless zombies.

- Multiplayer modes in GTA 4 are still to be announced, however, Rockstar have said it won't be a massively multiplayer online game. They are making something interesting, fun and progressive, and which ties in with single player gameplay.

- No loading screens... this due to a longer loading time at the start of the game.

- Multiplayer won't be MMO style, but will fit better to the single player experience

- Bellic arrives in Liberty City as he has been receiving emails from his cousin, Roman. At the start of the game, he is the only person you know.

- Pedestrians are a lot more realistic, and do things such as smoke, sit on benches, read, go shopping, eat, and more...

- While making the game, Rockstar consulted crime experts and ex-policemen and found that being a criminal is much more difficult now than it was during previous decades, so they have tried to reflect this in the game. Expect to see people getting arrested as the police are a heavy presence.

- As Rockstar North are approaching the recruitment of voice actors in a different way. We probably won't hear any recognisable voices in GTA 4 because they are looking for voices that suit the attitude of the characters - This approach is also being carried over to the soundtrack, where R* are looking for music which works well with the modern day Liberty City.

- According to the Official XBOX magazine, GTA IV is currently 100% complete.

- When Niko pulls out a pistol, a crosshair with a simple black cross within a circle shows up on the screen. This could be an indication of manual aiming being available in the game.

- Rockstar's humorous take on the number 69 makes an appearance yet again in GTA IV, the editors of the magazine saw a sign for a "69th Street Diner". Another building called "Twitchins", the GTA version of Brooklyn's Domino's Sugar Factory, is in the game.

- Niko will be able to climb and descend exterior fire escapes and some meetings will take place high in the office buildings of skyscrapers. It's said that from on top of them you'll be able to throw people off.

- Hand to hand combat is also being reworked on for GTA IV, and will feel "much more natural" than before.

- One of the radio stations includes an "Eastern European-sounding" dancing station.

- Players will be able to change their camera views whilst in a car according to their needs. This however is said to still being experimented on, and that Rockstar want to give better control and "immediacy" to players.

- When selecting your mobile phone, a zoomed-in version of the mobile screen pops up in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen, where you can use its address book to pitch for "jobs" with gang contacts among other things.

- One of the things that makes it easier for Rockstar setting GTA in a fictional New York is that they sometimes get a call from the developers at Rockstar North in Scotland, wanting to know more about a specific building or traffic flow in a certain area, for instance, and using their in-house researchers in NYC they can easily assist the guys back at R* North.

- Dan Houser is quoted saying that Liberty City in GTA IV is bigger than any single city they've done before, giving a more clear indication of the physical size of the game. He continues saying that the "detail" of the game is the big thing.

- He also confirms Central Park to be in the game, though it's fictional name is still unknown to us.

- Dan says that they're "certainly evolving the way the radio works". He says the same for police behaviour and their reaction to crimes. Nothing further is said about this...

- For confirmation, boats will be making a return and the handling is "really nice".
- "Fun ridiculous" weapons is said to be in the game, because R* is not going too "naturalistic".

- During the demo, when Niko passed an ATM machine a message appeared on the screen indicating a button to press in order to access his funds. Nothing more official is discussed about this, though it would appear that you'll likely be able to deposit and withdraw money from the various ATM machines across the game.

- As part of GTA IV's new physics, you'll be able to hear/feel the base of vehicles passing by with their radio turned on.

- Rockstar says that the usual GTA driving controls have been tremendously tweaked and enhanced.

- When selecting a contact on your mobile phone, a list of several commands are made available to the player, such as "meet me here" etc.

- Playing the single player game through co-operative mode is not possible, however there will be a co-op mode in addition to all the other unknown multiplayer modes.

- According to Dan Houser, VP of Creative for Rockstar Games, they haven't yet figured out if GTA IV is going to spark off another set of GTA games connected to it, and they're currently just focusing on this single game. He does say he "would have a certain confidence" setting GTA outside the United States, such as England in the future.

- When asked about a San Andreas Stories for the PSP, he replies saying that they don't have any plans for that at the moment, suggesting that they likely haven't started at all on another GTA PSP title.

- Niko can back up against walls and draw weapons like in Metal Gear Solid

- Niko can peer around corners while backed against walls like in Splinter Cell

- You will be able to have girlfriends like you could in GTA: San Andreas

- Several different animation sets for breaking into a car, so far we know one of them includes Niko breaking the glass of the window with his elbow, then starting the car using the injection cables. We suspect it will involve dynamic animations, and for instance Niko sometimes becoming suspicious in the middle of hotwiring a car, looking around to see if anyone suspects what he's doing, then continuing. Rockstar previously said they want the animations to look less "canned", so this would fit well with that goal.

- According to the article, Rockstar are using less non-realistic elements than previous GTA games, such as arrows and markers assisting and indicating things to the player. We already know the in-game mobile phone will play a big part in replacing some of these things.

- One of the ideas going into development is to give every street in the game a name, which could be displayed on-screen when you enter it by foot or car. This feature is yet to be decided on, along with the previously revealed information piece about Rockstar still deciding whether the entire city will be accessible from the start, or if different areas will be inaccessible by way of cordoning off bridges and such.

-----

- When R*'s Dan Houser was asked about the differences between the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions, he replied saying that it is their goal to have none, and that there are no platform preferences, both are difficult to develop on. For now, we take this as to have nothing to do with the extra downloadable content.

- Roman (Niko's cousin) is thousands and thousands of dollars in debt

- Niko's mobile phone has the ability to receive text messages and also has a camera which you can take pictures with.

- The GTA IV demo starts in Broker

- Roman's Taxi Depot is in Broker

- You can pan the Camera from Left-to-Right

- You can also tilt the Camera Up and Down

- The Main Office (Taxi Depot) contains a Telephone, Desk, A Radio blaring out ethnic music

- The paint on the wall is chipped

- One pedestrian shouts "I don't see a guide dog!"

- Another pedestrian is yelling abuse down the receiver of a nearby payphone

- There are hobos hanging out and keeping warm around a fire drum

- If you push the analogue stick to the left, Niko will lean to the left in a very naturalistic way

- The dockside area is called Boabo

- Radio continues playing after you exit the vehicle. So you can leave the ignition turned on

- Broker is the tough district

- GTA Sense of humor remains

- There are dirty Kitchens

- Graffiti is scrawled across the city's walls

- Broker feels run-down and oppressive

- More consequences to everything you do in the game

- Building relationships will be vital in the game

- The demo begins in Grand Theft Auto IV's equivalent of Times Square: Star Junction. There aren't many pedestrians present at this time, but this is most likely due to the early nature of the code.

- The mobile phone can be used to gain weapons. In the demo that GamesTM saw, Niko calls his associate Little Jacob, who is a Caribbean arms dealer. After a brief chat with Jacob, he tells Niko to meet him in an alleyway in Rotterdam Hill, where he purchases the weapons from him. No more Ammu-Nation it seems.

- Niko can use taxis to get around (presumably he can use the phone to call a taxi).

- The police are much more vigilant in GTA IV, and sometimes it is less hassle using a taxi than jacking someone's car. The trip-skip option is available for convenience.

- In the demo, Niko receives a call concerning "shady lawyer" Goldberg, of Goldberg, Ligner & Shyster (GLS). Niko can use the internet in GTA4. He heads over to an internet café called the "Tw@ Café," and hops onto a PC before surfing. He uploads his CV to the GLS website so he can get an interview - before killing Goldberg. He receives a phone call confirming the time of his interview. The web is available from any computer in the game, and provides a hub for all sorts of interactivity within Liberty City.

- Missions in GTA IV can be interrupted. The interview isn't until tomorrow, which means you can carry out other business until then. This suggests you can do several missions at the same time, and missions can take place over several days, perhaps.

- Next in the demo, Niko pays a visit to somebody called McReary, at Castle Gardens, a coast-side hangout overlooking the Statue of Hapiness. McReary has had a memory stick stolen from him which contains sensitive data, and he wants Niko to retrieve it for him. He takes another cab to the meeting point, where the target is standing amongst a crowd of people. The problem is he doesn't know which one it is, so he gives him a call to see which one picks up their phone. Niko shoots the target three times in the back of the head, before taking the memory stick and making a run for it. He gains a three-star wanted level as a result.

- Committing crimes isn't as easy in GTA IV. You gain a wanted level for every crime you commit, as long as there are witnesses present. Once you have gained a wanted level, a visible (circular) search area appears on the radar, and if you escape this area without being spotted, your wanted level will flash and disappear. If you are spotted, however, the search area's position changes, and centers on where you were last spotted. So unlike previous GTA games, the police don't always know where you are. They can't catch you unless they find you first. It was confirmed previously that in GTA IV every street will be named, and this is what cops use to communicate when they are tracking you down.

- There are no Pay N' Spray's to save you this time, unfortunately.

- Before heading off to the interview, Niko goes to a menswear store called Perseus. After spending $2,000 on a new suit and shoes, his phone alarm sounds and he begins his journey to the GLS offices for his interview. He speaks to the receptionist from outside the building via intercom, before making his way into the building. He enters Goldeberg's office and puts a bullet in his head, which causes his secretary to trigger the alarm. Niko must beat security guards and police in order to get out of the building. Bullets rain down on him, and there's a police chopper waiting outside. It seems as though the more bullets he takes, the more damage he takes, and hence he becomes less able to fight. The damage is actually visible this time.

- McReary, is a corrupt cop. He has "dirt on Niko's past." The mission they previewed is called "Call and Collect."

- Little Jacob (a caribbean arms dealer) is a good friend of Niko's cousin. When you buy weapons from him (which are kept in his trunk) you can scroll through them like you did in Ammu-Nation in the previous GTA games.

- Rotterdam Hill (the place where Niko agrees to meet Jacob) is in Alderney - the GTA IV equivalent of New Jersey.

- Niko kills Goldberg (the shady lawyer) because he owes a favour to somebody.

- Rockstar showed the sequence where he kills Goldberg twice. The first time he fell out of the window, the second time he merely crumpled on the floor.

- When purchasing clothes, you have to choose the items from the shelf individually.

- Determining which figures you need to kill requires perception - there are no arrowheads to direct you like in the previous games.

- Once you gain a wanted-level, the map flashes with circles of blue and red, with each circle representing the line of sight of the police chase. The circles differ in size depending on your wanted-level.

- The default camera view when driving rests around the left-hand side of the car above the road.

- Multiplayer is accessed via your mobile phone.

- The combat rests somewhere between Resident Evil 4 and Gears of War in terms of style, allowing you to roll, find protection and blind-fire from behind cover.

- Shooting different parts of the body has different impacts (e.g shoot a security guard in the foot at the top of the stairs, and he'll come tumbling down.)

- In GTA IV you have to develop relationships with other characters. Your relationship with Little Jacob, for example, is maintained through phone calls and loyalty. Developing good relationships with different characters can provide different rewards.

- The demo which was shown is from the Xbox 360 version of the game. The PlayStation 3 version is still "a week or two behind," according to Rockstar. The build shown is 5 weeks old, and the framerate has improved considerably since the last demo.

- At Star Junction (the GTA IV equivalent of Times Square) there is a theatre show on called T.S Pirate at the Thespian Theatre, and a camera store called Liberty Cameras. On the way to Rotterdam (where Little Jacob is situated) they passed a cocktail bar called "Bahama Mamas."

- Little Jacob is a Jamaican gun dealer from Dukes (the GTA IV equivalent of Queens.) The weapons on offer were $100 a piece.

- The name of each street is displayed at the bottom right of the screen as you enter it. During the demo, Niko passed through the following areas: Presidents City, Chinatown, Lancet, Hatton Gardens, Middle Park East, Lancaster, Ruby Street, Cod Row, Denver Avenue, Exeter Avenue, Northwood, East Holland, Silicon Street, Quartz Street, The Triangle, Easton, Diamond Street and Calcium Street.

- After hailing a taxi, you need to press Y to get in one, although the controls haven't been finalized. You have the option of sitting back and enjoying the ride, using the "trip-skip" option, or paying double the fare to make the driver go twice as fast. Inside the taxi, you can see and talk through to the driver in the front. The camera view changes every 5 seconds - read descriptions of the different camera views.

- The TW@ Café is located in Algonquin, north of Middle Park (Central Park.) Niko submits a fake résumé/cv to the Goldberg, Ligner & Shyster website, at McReary's request. For the interview he must to go to 44 Emerty Street, The Exchange, Algonquin

- There is a yellow light cone representing an objective, which triggers a cutscene when you walk into it.

- Francis McReary wears a black suit and tie, has a moustache and slicked blonde hair with a strong side parting. The person who blackmails McReary is at Union Drive East. McReary texts Niko the phone number of the blackmailer, so that he can phone it and identify who is the target. The name of the cell network is "Whiz." A black comet is used for this mission.

- The default camera angle is slightly over to the drivers' side. Different angles are available however. You can move the camera aswell, but if you're not touching it, it will remain at the more central position leaning towards the drivers' side.

- Currently, the total number of wanted stars is 6 - the same as it was in previous Grand Theft Auto games.

- There is a GPS system in the car, and the recommended route shows up in yellow on the radar at the bottom left of the screen. There is also a voice feature on the GPS system in more expensive vehicles which tells which direction to take to go to your objective.

- You can auto-target as well as manual aim. Niko can take cover behind just about anything, and so can the cops.

- Goldberg's (the shady lawyer) first name is Tom.

- The game has now essentially been completed. Rockstar are just polishing the game and dealing with bugs, glitches and minor things.

- The official release date given by Rockstar themselves is April 29th worldwide.

- The Liberty City map was shown briefly during the demo. Kikizo describe it as containing a large island in the middle (Algonquin) with a similarly sized island to the left (Alderney) and two islands to the right - a small one (Bohan) up north with Broker and Dukes underneath. Rockstar also commented on the map found in Trailer 3 by the GTA Forums member Bluespot. "My God!" was their reaction. In other words, yes, it is indeed the map.

- Liberty City will contain a subway system, which Niko is able to use. The system covers - at the very least - Broker and Algonquin, but we aren't sure about the other areas yet.

- A speedboat journey around (approximately) half of Algonquin lasted 5 real-world minutes.

- In terms of camera views, all the traditional views are still there, and there will now also be a dashboard view.

- During the demo, they passed a restaurant called "Poop Deck," where they met with Francis McGreary. Other places mentioned are Oneida Avenue, 99 Long Road (Broker), a bar called Perestroika, South Parkway, Franklyn Street Westbank, and Albannay.

- Three missions were previewed during the demonstration. The first one was "Search and Delete," followed by "Deconstruction for Beginners" and then "Truck Hustle". A new character called Playboy X is introduced by Elizabeta (a mutual friend) during the second mission. Playboy X lives in a mansion, and eventually provides missions for Niko. A second character called Dwayne Ford is introduced, who just got out of prison. He taught Playboy X "everything he knows," apparently. In the third mission, two characters called Ray and Bell are introduced. They are from the mafia, and are trying to help Niko find someone, but want some favours done in return.

- The character Brucie is introduced to Niko by his cousin Roman. Brucie runs a garage just around the corner from Roman's taxi depot in Broker.

- Characters often look different each time you see them instead of perpetually wearing the same clothes like in previous GTAs.

- The red and blue search radius on the radar is centred around the point where the crime was committed, and your last known whereabouts.

- Every police car in Liberty City has an on-board computer, on which you can access the police database files for anybody who's got a criminal record, or any other details that the police are aware of.

- You can smash your own car window to enable you to shoot from it; you can free-aim outside of your window using the right analogue.

- Liberty City has one airport, based on JFK, called Francis International Airport (yes, it's the same name given to the airport in GTA3). It is located in on the East of the city.

- Progress is automatically saved after completing a mission. There are also safe houses dotted around the city, which you can save at any time.

- In this demo, the cell network is called Badger, whereas in the last demo it was called Whiz.

- Building and maintaining relationships with characters is important. During the preview, Jacob comes to meet you rather than vice versa. This is only possible once your friendship with Jacob has developed to a certain stage. Relationships can be damaged if you (for example) fail to turn up for meetings, or snub the character too many times. Maintaining good relationships with characters provides benefits.

- Pool, eating, darts, drinking and bowling are just some of the activities you can do with your friends to maintain relationships. The cellphone is used to access these activities via a menu. If you go for a drink and drink too much, Niko will get drunk. When this happens, the radar reads "You are drunk. Your vision is blurred." and the camera begins to shake, which makes driving difficult.

- There is a radio station called IF99.

- The game clock is no longer one minute = one hour. It is now two minutes = one hour. So days now last longer.

- Niko receives phone calls from people throughout the game. If someone really wants to get in touch with you about an important issue, they will keep on phoning.

- The new targetting system was described. There are eight purple segments in the target circle that make up someone's health, which you get when you're locked on - during free aiming you don't get the indicator.

- Expensive cars have better GPS systems than poorer ones. The one they enter during the preview session "talks us through the streets!"

- The cellphone can be used to listen to radio stations, so now you can listen to music at any time.

- The GTA 4 weather system does not feature seasons, and there is no snow.

- The preview was hands-on, which means the game was played by the journalists as opposed to a representative from Rockstar.

- The missions that were played appear to be the same ones that were previewed by the online press last month.

- Pedestrian reactions are more true-to-life than in previous games.

- The WASTED! system is still intact. If you die, you end up at the nearest hospital (minus your weapons) the next morning.

- One button press will get you into a car. A second button press is required to start up the car's engine.

- Niko wears a helmet while riding motorcycles.

- Surroundings are more interactive (bullet holes from gunfire, environment reacting to explosions, etc).

- You can find "useful things" in cars that you hijack.

- The preview was based on the PlayStation 3 version of the game. This is the first time (as far as we are aware) that the PS3 version has been previewed by the gaming press.

- The faster you tap X, the faster Niko runs. He doesn't appear to get tired.

- Major collisions on motorbikes cause the helmet to fall off. You can see it fall onto the ground.

- Heavy fire will scar - and permanently destroy - parts of the environment.

- They previewed a mission called "To Live and Die in Alderney," which is the second part of "Truck Hustle." The second mission is called "Jamaican Heat," and acts as a tutorial for the new cover/targeting system. The third mission is called "Jacob's Ladder," and the fourth (and final) mission is called "Harbouring a Grudge." This mission introduces an Irish character called Patrick McReary, who is related to Francis.

- The mobile phone can be used to call the police, the paramedics, and the fire department.

- There are 18 radio stations in GTA IV - one of which is Russian. All of these stations can be accessed via the mobile phone.

- You can take photos with the mobile phone and upload them to the police computer.

- Health is represented by a green semi-circle on the left side of the radar, and a right semi-circle represents armour.

- You can restore health by resting, by using medical kits, and by eating.

- In taxis, you can ask the driver to change the radio station by pressing D-pad left or right.

- The GTA 4 equivalent of the Lincoln Tunnel is known as the Booth Tunnel.
---------------------------

I've already reserved my copy
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.357 Magnum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .357 Magnum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 3:42pm
Didn't read it all but I'll buy it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 3:48pm
That sucks theres no planes, but oh well, I'll still love it. I'm glad that both PS3 and 360 versions are going to be identical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 3:50pm
tl;dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 3:55pm
"- No loading screens... this due to a longer loading time at the start of the game. "

Longer than San Andreas? Is that possible?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 3:56pm
Damn, flying the planes on san andreas was a flight simultor to me on my pilot course last summer.

It's sad that they want realism, that's what made the older versions so great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roll Tide Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 3:57pm
I'd like to know about customizing vehicles. That was one of my favorite parts, and with no Pay-N-Spray, I hope they still have it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 4:04pm
WALL OF TEXT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dye Playa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 4:23pm
WHY can't they release it on the pc also =[
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 4:27pm
MTA:VC was a lot of fun to play.

I almost feel like reloading VC right now...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pntbl freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 4:37pm
When does it come out?

And is there already a demo out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerseypaint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 4:40pm
Woot, Jersey is in it. I think I'm gonna try and see if I can get to where I live seeing I'm only 10min away from NYC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hairball!!! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by Dye Playa Dye Playa wrote:

WHY can't they release it on the pc also =[


Maybe they will. I don't have a 360 or a PS3, so I'd love to see a PC version.
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I don’t have one either. Is that good???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 6:02pm
Vice City was one of my all time favorite games. The first week I got the game, I was immersed, waking up the next morning for work with VC-hangovers (waking up at seven AM, but was playing VC until 3AM).

However, I played San Andreas for a short time, and couldn't get interested in it at all, never spent much time at all playing it. Part of the reason I didn't like it was the realism...you feel a little guilty exercising in a video game, when you don't make enough time to hit the gym in real life! So, if they create a PC version of GTA, I don't know if I'll get it or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tical2.0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 6:54pm
Saints Row 2 >*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mamasboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 7:56pm

from what i heard if you even run a red light you will get pulled over.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 8:31pm

Ill have to save the penny's for a PS3 but it will be mine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styro Folme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 9:01pm
sounds like fun.  I wonder what radio stations are on it.  I also wonder if the car chases will be better.  The previous games left a lot to be desired.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaiNTbALLfReNzY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2008 at 8:34am
Originally posted by NotDaveEllis NotDaveEllis wrote:



- There are dirty Kitchens


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2008 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by mamasboi mamasboi wrote:

from what i heard if you even run a red light you will get pulled over.



Just like Driver. That sucks, driver was a pain for that.
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