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Ben Dover II View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 February 2008 at 6:09pm

I was thinking about getting one but not sure what to get. any advise?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Commander_Cool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 6:14pm

Why do you want to get one?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben Dover II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 6:23pm

use as a primary wepon sometimes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Commander_Cool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 6:36pm

If you want something interesting... that is a "pistol/ handgun", I suggest you get a PGP.

If you want to use it as a secondary, "backup" weapon... its a needless, costly, and wasteful purchase.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben Dover II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 7:07pm
is it a pump or semi?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 8:52pm
If you can spend for top of the line, the Tac 8 and it's clones are the way to go now that they have most of the bugs worked out.  If you want to go cheaper, my personal favorite is the Piranha USP. 

Piranha USP pros/cons/etc:
  • Pros
    • Reliability.
      • The majority of over/under valved pistols have a magazine that feeds from spring pressure at the front of the magazine/gun to a chamber in the rear.
      • In order minimize the amount of marker sticking out behind the handgrip it was necessary to miniaturize the bolt/hammer etc. to fit all the moving parts into less space.
      • This leads to failures due to overcompression of springs and smaller/lighter parts having to handle the strain of firing.
      • The USP has a magazine that feeds from spring pressure at the front to a chamber forward of the grip.
      • This means that it uses the same proven full-size internals as any other mechanical Piranha.
    • Ease of disassembly/reassembly.
      • The USP can have all of the internals removed by pulling a single pin.
      • While some other pistols are similar, none go back together as easily.
        • The use of full size internals means that less spring pressure interferes with reassembly.  (The early PTs were noted for really having to compress the springs during reassembly.)
        • The USP comes with a sear-release for ease of reassembly.
    • Partially concealed operating action--the charging handle does not move back and forth at the rear of the marker; it's located along the sides of the body marker.
    • Torque lever on the puncture knob for aiding in installation/removal of 12 grams.
    • Effective ball detent--some other pistols aren't bad, but the PT based ones are notorious for allowing extra balls into the barrel while the marker is holstered.
    • Ability to install a Piranha e-grip if wanted.  (Why, I don't know; but it can be done if someone wants to.)
    • Barrel tip is threaded to take pipe fronts.
  • Cons
    • No sights.  (You could use the handle on the magazine feed spring, but it's not that effective.)
    • Magazine.
      • Is molded as part of frame. (Non-removable.)
      • Top load style of magazine can lead to jammed balls when reloading.  (Most difficult magazine to reload quickly by far.)
    • Stock barrel
      • Machined from body. (No after-market barrels.)
      • Approximate 4 1/2" length is insufficient for accuracy beyond 60-80 foot range.
    • Stock grips are small and cheap.
    • No mounting rails for accessories.
    • No port to tap into the valve for direct air like most of the PTs and PT clones.
  • Etc. Information
    • Handle has metal screw inserts for ASA attachment.  (Don't know why, since you'd need some type of modified 12 gram adapter to run constant air and there is no good way to attach a hopper.)
With all the negatives I listed, you are probably wondering why I like this particular pistol as much as I do.  Having owned/used various PTs, PT clones and a Sidekick semi, this is by far the most reliable and consistent pistol of its type available.  My theory has always been if I only have 10 rounds I want to know that I will get to fire all of them effectively.  As for slow reloads; I figure if I'm in trouble and need more than 10 rounds right away, I'm probably hosed anyway.

As for using the pistol as a primary; I've done it several times and it is a lot of fun.  The more common pistols have one advantage over the Tac 8 types when playing those games; you can easily "top off" the magazine between paint exchanges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thejudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 9:07pm
I agree. plus the tac 8 and blackbird (the same gun but made by Rap4) are very pricey for the gun and for the mags.  If you want to get one for going pistols only I have had good luck with both the ACP 2.0 and the T68 (once again similar but made by rap4).  The reason I liked the T68 more though is it is very customizeable.  you can get new barrels or anything else you can think of for it easily.  As for mags I have notcied that the mag may hurt you because you cant top off and you dont want to waste a single round so get one of the other kind with 10rnd tubes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben Dover II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

If you can spend for top of the line, the Tac 8 and it's clones are the way to go now that they have most of the bugs worked out.  If you want to go cheaper, my personal favorite is the Piranha USP. 

Piranha USP pros/cons/etc:
  • Pros
    • Reliability.
      • The majority of over/under valved pistols have a magazine that feeds from spring pressure at the front of the magazine/gun to a chamber in the rear.
      • In order minimize the amount of marker sticking out behind the handgrip it was necessary to miniaturize the bolt/hammer etc. to fit all the moving parts into less space.
      • This leads to failures due to overcompression of springs and smaller/lighter parts having to handle the strain of firing.
      • The USP has a magazine that feeds from spring pressure at the front to a chamber forward of the grip.
      • This means that it uses the same proven full-size internals as any other mechanical Piranha.
    • Ease of disassembly/reassembly.
      • The USP can have all of the internals removed by pulling a single pin.
      • While some other pistols are similar, none go back together as easily.
        • The use of full size internals means that less spring pressure interferes with reassembly.  (The early PTs were noted for really having to compress the springs during reassembly.)
        • The USP comes with a sear-release for ease of reassembly.
    • Partially concealed operating action--the charging handle does not move back and forth at the rear of the marker; it's located along the sides of the body marker.
    • Torque lever on the puncture knob for aiding in installation/removal of 12 grams.
    • Effective ball detent--some other pistols aren't bad, but the PT based ones are notorious for allowing extra balls into the barrel while the marker is holstered.
    • Ability to install a Piranha e-grip if wanted.  (Why, I don't know; but it can be done if someone wants to.)
    • Barrel tip is threaded to take pipe fronts.
  • Cons
    • No sights.  (You could use the handle on the magazine feed spring, but it's not that effective.)
    • Magazine.
      • Is molded as part of frame. (Non-removable.)
      • Top load style of magazine can lead to jammed balls when reloading.  (Most difficult magazine to reload quickly by far.)
    • Stock barrel
      • Machined from body. (No after-market barrels.)
      • Approximate 4 1/2" length is insufficient for accuracy beyond 60-80 foot range.
    • Stock grips are small and cheap.
    • No mounting rails for accessories.
    • No port to tap into the valve for direct air like most of the PTs and PT clones.
  • Etc. Information
    • Handle has metal screw inserts for ASA attachment.  (Don't know why, since you'd need some type of modified 12 gram adapter to run constant air and there is no good way to attach a hopper.)

With all the negatives I listed, you are probably wondering why I like this particular pistol as much as I do.  Having owned/used various PTs, PT clones and a Sidekick semi, this is by far the most reliable and consistent pistol of its type available.  My theory has always been if I only have 10 rounds I want to know that I will get to fire all of them effectively.  As for slow reloads; I figure if I'm in trouble and need more than 10 rounds right away, I'm probably hosed anyway.

As for using the pistol as a primary; I've done it several times and it is a lot of fun.  The more common pistols have one advantage over the Tac 8 types when playing those games; you can easily "top off" the magazine between paint exchanges.

That looks like a great gun (USP), its also in my price range of $110 being max.

 

I just have a few more questions.

Whats its highest velocity?

Does it leak CO2 over an hour or so?

Where is a good place to buy it?

Is it durable?

Are there any other semi auto pistols that are good within my price range?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 10:22pm

Buddy of mine has been buying up old Splatmaster Rapides so we can all play a pistol game instead of using our other markers.  Makes the game more exciting.  I personally don't care for the Rapide's long trigger pull, so I got a great deal on an Ariakon ACP 2.0 with holster and three 10 rnd clips for $130.  I took it apart to check it out.  Basic Spyder clone innards.

I've never played a pistol only game with 12 grams.  I'm intrigued.  You have to get close and personal in a game like this.



Edited by StormyKnight - 28 February 2008 at 10:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Commander_Cool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 11:39pm

I do believe the PGP is a pump.

I mean the Tac 8 is probably the most interesting, expensive, needless pistol in existance. The problem mainly being... its a nice chunk of change and how often do you actually plan on playing with a pistol? Probably only occassionaly. My friend has one and never uses it.

The PGP can be found for alot cheaper, its an older gun, and itis a pump. All in all it has a certain uniqueness factor if used at a field that the Tac-8 doesn't have, and isn't being unique and doing something different part of why you would want a pistol (since they aren't exactly the most practical marker to use)?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2008 at 11:21am
Originally posted by Ben Dover II Ben Dover II wrote:


That looks like a great gun (USP), its also in my price range of $110 being max.

I just have a few more questions.

Whats its highest velocity?

They come new with two springs.  I use the low velocity one and have mine chronoed at 270 fps.

Does it leak CO2 over an hour or so?

I have never had any leakage of CO2.  I usually put a cartridge in at the beginning of the day and (assuming I haven't had to use the pistol) fire it off at the end of the day.  This is about 6 hours normally.

Where is a good place to buy it?

I got a decent deal off of E-Bay, but I haven't seen anything nearly as good as what I got recently. 

Is it durable?

Very.  I've fiddled with/used various pistols and have also owned a PT Extreme and a Sidekick Semi.  The PT constantly developed valve leaks and wouldn't go over 200 fps out of the box.  (A condition I corrected with a spring from another marker.)  The stock ball detent sucked so bad I finally made my own. Even then, it required constant maintenance. The Sidekick had an unfixable slow leak and wildly fluctuating velocity. 

As I pointed out in the previous post; I believe that the fact it uses stock Piranha internals contributes greatly to durability.  Think of it as a mechanical Piranha in a different body.

Are there any other semi auto pistols that are good within my price range?

Rough question as my experience with some is limited.  TheJudge mentioned the ACP 2.0 and T68 as good pistols and, as I have not tried them, I won't argue.  (I was unimpressed with the first ACPs.) My main reason for choosing the USP was that I wanted something that used a proven operating mechanism as opposed to something that was miniaturized/developed just for pistol use.



Edited for correction/additional information.


Edited by Mack - 29 February 2008 at 11:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2008 at 11:25pm

Crossman 3357 FTMFW!

In the simplest terms possible, its a fricken sweet revolver from the 80's, and fires .50 cal rounds.

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