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Proper Punishment

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Mack View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 May 2009 at 12:12pm
I have mixed feelings on the death penalty, but this is one person I am wholeheartedly in favor of being executed.  (Shame it won't happen.)

Originally posted by Article Article wrote:

He told The Associated Press in March he’s as indifferent to the homicides as if he had spilled a glass of milk.

"Do you get all upset about it? No, you just clean it up and get another glass of milk," he said.

The local paper carried an additional quote in which he "told victims families that they shouldn't complain because their community donated thousands of dollars to pay for the funerals," but I can't find a link to that one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:01pm
Kill him.




Honestly, people blame the death penalty when they should in fact be blaming the court systems and how they operate.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPULS3. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Kill him.




Honestly, people blame the death penalty when they should in fact be blaming the court systems and how they operate.



True, but until they make the court systems 100% perfect (impossible), how do you sentence someone to death? When 180+ people got let off death row, through DNA, that's scary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by IMPULS3. IMPULS3. wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Kill him.




Honestly, people blame the death penalty when they should in fact be blaming the court systems and how they operate.



True, but until they make the court systems 100% perfect (impossible), how do you sentence someone to death? When 180+ people got let off death row, through DNA, that's scary.
This point has been made dozens of times but people still argue against it. I agree with you, though.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:26pm
Correct, it is impossible, but just because something is impossible to make fail safe does not mean you should never due it for risk of innocent people dying.


Flying isn't failsaife, innocent people can, and do, die. Should airlines shut down? Riding in a car isn't fail safe, tens of thousands of people a year die from accidents. Should we go back to walking?

There's a reason why in murder trials it cones down to "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt", and it take a lot to get to that burden of proof.

Yes, there are mistakes, and it's sad when an innocent person dies, and no, no one wants the "not in my backyard" mentality, but the good tends to outweigh the bad, as sadistic as that sounds.


What I believe is just as, if not more so, scary are the truly evil, guilty ones getting off of technicalities.




Also, the vast majority of those freed due to DNA testing were from crimes that happened before DNA testing became prevalent, let alone known. Now DNA testing is a pretty big cornerstone in a prosecutions case. Hell, DNA doesn't prove a darn thing either aside from someones skin cell somehow landed on a victim. DNA doesn't prove a crime.


Edited by Linus - 22 May 2009 at 3:28pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPULS3. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:

Originally posted by IMPULS3. IMPULS3. wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Kill him.




Honestly, people blame the death penalty when they should in fact be blaming the court systems and how they operate.



True, but until they make the court systems 100% perfect (impossible), how do you sentence someone to death? When 180+ people got let off death row, through DNA, that's scary.
This point has been made dozens of times but people still argue against it. I agree with you, though.


How can someone argue against it? How about the people who are sentenced for 50 years, at the 30 year mark, they go " Our bad, your allowed to leave" Are you kidding me, 30 years of your life down the tubes. Not having ANY money saved, no job, parents are dead, wife long gone, kids are grown adults. Jesus I couldn't even imagine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:28pm
Put him in solitary confinement with a steak knife. He'll figure it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPULS3. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Correct, it is impossible, but just because something is impossible to make fail safe does not mean you should never due it for risk of innocent people dying.


Flying isn't failsaife, innocent people can, and do, die. Should airlines shut down?

Riding in a car isn't fail safe, tens of thousands of people a year die from accidents. Should we go back to walking?



I stopped reading after that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:29pm
Linus:

Because serial killers escape and continue mass murdering once they get out all the time.

/sarcasm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:33pm
So, I want everyone to think of this.


Lets say there is a triple murder from a simple aggravated robbery. The murder is caught on tape. The suspect is caught by police right after, weapon is possession. Weapon matches that which was used to kill all 3 victims.

Suspect had motive. Suspect had means. Suspect's DNA is on victims. Suspect is on videotape doing all 3 murders. Suspect admits he was the one that fired the gun. Suspect admits that he was robbing the victims. Suspect says he will do it again.


Pretty straightforward case.



Still against the death penalty? If so, why? Obviously it isn't for the "He might be innocent" argument.

Edited by Linus - 22 May 2009 at 3:34pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

So, I want everyone to think of this.


Lets say there is a triple murder from a simple aggravated robbery. The murder is caught on tape. The suspect is caught by police right after, weapon is possession. Weapon matches that which was used to kill all 3 victims.

Suspect had motive. Suspect had means. Suspect's DNA is on victims. Suspect is on videotape doing all 3 murders. Suspect admits he was the one that fired the gun. Suspect admits that he was robbing the victims.


Pretty straightforward case.



Still against the death penalty? If so, why? Obviously it isn't for the "He might be innocent" argument.
Yes, I am, for moral reasons. Also, not all cases have such damning evidence.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

So, I want everyone to think of this.


Lets say there is a triple murder from a simple aggravated robbery. The murder is caught on tape. The suspect is caught by police right after, weapon is possession. Weapon matches that which was used to kill all 3 victims.

Suspect had motive. Suspect had means. Suspect's DNA is on victims. Suspect is on videotape doing all 3 murders. Suspect admits he was the one that fired the gun. Suspect admits that he was robbing the victims. Suspect says he will do it again.


Pretty straightforward case.



Still against the death penalty? If so, why? Obviously it isn't for the "He might be innocent" argument.


Because that's one case of many....
You're going to structure the legal system around one hypothetical situation? Thats just.....stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:38pm
As is the case with abortions--- You can't always rule out the death penalty. It still needs to be an option. It doesn't have to be THE option. Doesn't even have to be a viable option. It just has to be there for when something so vial, so wrong, and so horrible, occurs, that you can do something.



If we caught OBL, you'd want him to live for the rest of his life in a US prison?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPULS3. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:38pm
Trust me, this issue is not black and white. But until we re-do our CJ system. We need to determine exactly what beyond a reasonable doubt it.

And a good rebuttal to your situation is this, what if the person pleads insanity? It happens all the time.

For me, anyone who murders offensively (not self defense) are all mentally ill. So then if your a defense attorney, everyone who murders can't get the death penalty seeing they are insane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:39pm
Sure why not? What's the difference if he's dead or alive if he's locked up and out of contact with people?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dunbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:39pm

A bullet in the head of every serial killer and sex offender will solve all our problems in this world and it will lower the prison population and lower our taxes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPULS3. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:





If we caught OBL, you'd want him to live for the rest of his life in a US prison?


Yes, seeing he rather die, than do life......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPULS3. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Dunbar Dunbar wrote:

A bullet in the head of every serial killer and sex offender will solve all our problems in this world and it will lower the prison population and lower our taxes.



I remember when I was 13.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Dunbar Dunbar wrote:

A bullet in the head of every serial killer and sex offender will solve all our problems in this world and it will lower the prison population and lower our taxes.

Someone should put you in charge. You're obviously a genius.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by IMPULS3. IMPULS3. wrote:

Trust me, this issue is not black and white. But until we re-do our CJ system. We need to determine exactly what beyond a reasonable doubt it.And a good rebuttal to your situation is this, what if the person pleads insanity? It happens all the time.For me, anyone who murders offensively (not self defense) are all mentally ill. So then if your a defense attorney, everyone who murders can't get the death penalty seeing they are insane.



Anyone who commits a felonious crime is screwed up in the head, no arguing that. But you obviously need to look up the insanity defense before you think it can be used on the vast majority of cases. First is, it's not used that often as many states have strict guidelines on when you can use it. And second, it rarely ever succeeds when used.


Your logic is, if someone can die by the CJ system screwing up, we should stop the death penalty. The CJ system can also screw up and send someone to jail for 30 years. Should we just stop all trials and all law enforcement until that problem is corrected?



Yes, the CJ system needs an overhaul, but there are ways to do that without taking options off of the table.

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