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Public health nightmares

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Linus View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:11pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090606/ap_on_go_co/us_health_overhaul

So let me get this straight---

They want businesses, that are already struggling to make money and not lay people off, be required to provide insurance?

Eff that.   

Edited by Linus - 05 June 2009 at 10:12pm

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jmac3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:18pm
Wouldn't be a problem if there was national healthcare.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Wouldn't be a problem if there was national healthcare.

But then you'd all be communists, duh.
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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Wouldn't be a problem if there was national healthcare.

Did you even read the article?



His bill for national healthcare would require businesses to provide it for employees or pay a fine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:27pm
Which is in fact not national healthcare.

My state has some nonsense, and yes I edited this sentence because I forget exactly how it works,


Edited by jmac3 - 05 June 2009 at 10:29pm
Que pasa?


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choopie911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Wouldn't be a problem if there was national healthcare.

Did you even read the article?



His bill for national healthcare would require businesses to provide it for employees or pay a fine.


I think he means a better plan, such as how europe or Canadia does it.

Also Linus I thought you might find this interesting:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090603142002.htm
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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:56pm
jmac--- it's forced "free" healthcare for the majority of citizens in America. Can hardly get more nationalized.    Again, horrible idea because the employers will have to come up with the money some how, and that means laying more people off.


Choop-- Any competent healthcare worker washes their hands religiously, as MRSA is not something you want to mess with, and it EVERYWHERE. Study was done where 1/3 of stethoscopes has MRSA on it. Hospitals are dirty dirty places.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 10:59pm
Linus what do you not understand about how canada and europe work?

I do not know all the fine details but I am 99% certain that employers aren't paying for it.
Que pasa?


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Frozen Balls View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:00pm
Employers pay for a lot of healthcare anyways...am I missing something?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:01pm
Yeah, they aren't. Sure you get health benefits for dental and stuff, but its through taxes. But again, taxes = OMG GUBERNMENTS TAKIN MAH RIGHTS!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by Frozen Balls Frozen Balls wrote:

Employers pay for a lot of healthcare anyways...am I missing something?


I want to say that it's probably not required by law.
Que pasa?


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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Linus what do you not understand about how canada and europe work?I do not know all the fine details but I am 99% certain that employers aren't paying for it.


I get perfectly how they work, but doesn't change a damn thing about the "draft of a draft" bill that was written, which is what this thread is about, which is what I'm commenting on. What part of THAT do you not understand?



Originally posted by Frozen Balls Frozen Balls wrote:

Employers pay for a lot of healthcare anyways...am I missing something?


Not required by law, and therefor if a business can't afford to, they aren't forced to.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:08pm
"you link article"

"wouldn't be a problem with national healthcare"

"this bill would require businesses to pay"

"it's forced "free" healthcare for the majority of citizens in America. Can hardly get more nationalized"

See the third and fourth quote? That was you. I don't care about them. I merely stated that your crying about this "draft of a draft" wouldn't happen with national healthcare equivalent to other countries.
Que pasa?


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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:15pm
Correct, having nationalized wouldn't make me cry about the "draft of a draft".


It would make me cry like a baby about having nationalized.



But again, that's not the topic. The topic is the idiocy of even having the idea of forcing businesses to pay for healthcare in this economy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Yeah, they aren't. Sure you get health benefits for dental and stuff, but its through taxes. But again, taxes = OMG GUBERNMENTS TAKIN MAH RIGHTS!!!!!!!!


That's the difference between U.S. and Canada. Us Canadians don't have a problem with it, but in the U.S. people really really hate taxes, Boston Tea Party ring a bell? Probbly not because you have most likely never been educated on that piece of history.
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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:19pm
I'm not against taxes. I'm against taxes being used for one thing, when they can go to something more important.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:32pm
Look at our population and then the Nationalized Health Care Country populations, then compare efficiency in government we already have, and then the fiasco and potential of mismanagement and total financial fiasco if we tried it. The VA can't even keep 2.5 million veterans healthcare straight, lets let the government do it for 350 million.
Hols on to your wallet as cost spiral out of control and the taxes climb higher and higher and medical staff find differant higher paying careers after all those years in med school. Maybe being a lawyer would actually pay better, or even a union big city garbage collector. As any GS/13 VA Primary Care Physician if they are staying with the VA or going on to private practice after student loan/indentured service period is over.

They could always work for Cyberdyne.

Edited by oldsoldier - 05 June 2009 at 11:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:


Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Yeah, they aren't. Sure you get health benefits for dental and stuff, but its through taxes. But again, taxes = OMG GUBERNMENTS TAKIN MAH RIGHTS!!!!!!!!
That's the difference between U.S. and Canada. Us Canadians don't have a problem with it, but in the U.S. people really really hate taxes, Boston Tea Party ring a bell? Probbly not because you have most likely never been educated on that piece of history.


Haha, are you serious? Yeah thanks we get US history as well. In fact we get educated on the shadier dealings in US history that is omitted from your curriculum.
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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2009 at 11:55pm
Such as?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2009 at 12:03am
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Look at our population and then the Nationalized Health Care Country populations, then compare efficiency in government we already have, and then the fiasco and potential of mismanagement and total financial fiasco if we tried it. The VA can't even keep 2.5 million veterans healthcare straight, lets let the government do it for 350 million.
Hols on to your wallet as cost spiral out of control and the taxes climb higher and higher and medical staff find differant higher paying careers after all those years in med school. Maybe being a lawyer would actually pay better, or even a union big city garbage collector. As any GS/13 VA Primary Care Physician if they are staying with the VA or going on to private practice after student loan/indentured service period is over.

They could always work for Cyberdyne.
 
All I can conclude from this is that American government bureaucrats and medical professionals must be FAR inferior to their European counterparts - seeing as how most European nations manage to provide good nationalized healthcare to their citizens for a fraction of the cost of the hybrid US system.
 
Every other civilized nation seems to be capable of doing this - if OS is right and the US just can't, then what else am I to conclude?
 
 
And US employers are not required to provide health insurance, but the tax laws make it more efficient (cheaper) for the employer to pay for a portion of the healthcare premium than for the employee to pay the whole thing.  As a result, almost all medium/large employers provide health insurance for their full-time employees.  This bill would extend that practice to smaller businesses and (I believe) part-time employees.
 
Noble effort, but still putting lipstick on a pig.
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common?
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