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A-5 20oz. co2- 350 shots?

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stryker98c View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 February 2010 at 12:52am
I just recently purchased a used A-5 and took it out for some testing. Shoots good. I am able to get it to go full auto but only for about 10 to 15 rounds. I am using a Pure Energy 20 oz. Co2 tank completely filled. I have access to a refill station and know that it was full.   I am only able to get around 350 shots out of a full tank. Is this seriously normal expectations from this marker?
 
My setup is an A-5 with the RT being the only upgrade on the marker.  I was able to get about 700-800 on my 98 custom without any mods. I would expect at least 600 from the A-5 though.  There is also no hissing coming from the gun.  So I shouldn't have any air leaks, correct?
 
Sorry if this has been gone through before but everything I typed in for the search comes up negative for an issue of using this much Co2.
 
Thanks,
Jamie
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CooterShooter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CooterShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2010 at 10:18am
What happens after 350 shots?  Cyclone stops feeding, velocity drops off, bolt stops cycling/recocking?
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stryker98c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stryker98c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2010 at 12:04pm
After 350 shots the Co2 is completely out.
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stryker98c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stryker98c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2010 at 12:10pm
I have also chronoed the gun and it is firing at 260-275 fairly consistently.  The hopper stops cycling when it gets low but I read that it usually stops cycling at below 400psi. Also my RT quits going full auto when it gets lower. Although I can't get it to stay at full auto for more than 15 shots.
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Jollyroger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollyroger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2010 at 12:17pm
well one thing, when you use full auto with co2, the gas dosnt have room to expand. the bottle gets cold as well as the gun. you will get less shots if you say, fire one shot every minute. plus with the rt and cyclone, it uses co2 to operate causing less shots out of the tank. but 350 shots vers 1100 does sound a little fishy. I would check all fittings for leaks. put some dish soap in a bowl and add water. dip your finger in the soap watter and then run your finger on all fittings, lines, etc. look for bubbles. that will indicate a leak. sometimes leaks are so small that you wont hear hissing. also check the tank valve when it is not attached to the gun. on of my tanks had a small leak in the valve and it leaked out over night. my wifes 98 had a leak in the middle of the gas line.i found it but removing the powertube/line combo and attaching it to a tank and then submerging it under water. but you cant do that when checking the rt and cyclone. so use soapy water.
98 Custom Platinum
Flatline
Bipod
Adjustible Stock
Rufus Dawg Wicked Front Bolt/Power Tube
Expansion Chamber
M4 Style Handle/Sight
Taco Speed Hopper
20 OZ CO2 Tank W/Neoprene Cover
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stryker98c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stryker98c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2010 at 1:20pm
Thanks for the advice. I will give it a shot once I refill my tank and post back my findings. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2010 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by Jollyroger Jollyroger wrote:

plus with the rt and cyclone, it uses co2 to operate causing less shots out of the tank. .
This statement is inaccurate. Both the RT and Cylcone operate off of excess gas from the blowback from the valve. It should not use more CO2 to operate either of these.  However, I would agree on the high ROF using more CO2 as it doesnt have time to expand properly, thus less shots per tank. Also consider the weather. You will get a whole more shots out of a CO2 tank on a 90 degree day than you will non a 30 degree day. CO2 uses the external temp to go from a liquid to a gas,and expands at a slower rate in cold weather. Combined with the high ROF, you should expect to see less shots. Also, are you going by what you 'think" you are shooting or using a tangible? Are you actually using paint when you shoot or dry firing? It is very deceptive of how much paint you can use when you are using a high ROF. Think about it for a second. If you are claiming to get 15seconds of full auto at 10 bps, thats 150 balls.... If you do this 3 or 4 times you are looking at 450 - 600 shots. It adds up quick.

Edited by oldpbnoob - 01 March 2010 at 2:50pm
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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stryker98c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stryker98c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2010 at 4:26pm
I actually knew that much from the reviewing I have done that the cyclone and RT operate off of excess gas. I tested for leaks with soapy water around all the lines and that came out negative for leaks.
 
I have used paint and dry firing both. I used paint outside and dry fired in the house. I used 1 1/2 hopper full of paint before I ran out of CO2 outside.(Had a few dry fire shots left after this, not more than  50-75 though)   I also only get 10-15 rounds not 15 seconds worth. I am only able to achieve that maybe 3-4 times. So say 45-60 rounds tops before it no longer goes full auto.  
 
Basically I can't fire 2 hoppers through this gun on a full 20 oz. tank. That's not even 400 rounds.
 
I see that everyone says that the CO2 doesn't have time to expand from a liquid to a gas state at a higher ROF.  Is there an Expansion Chamber anybody would recommend for use with CO2 and Compressed Air?  I have both tanks but I only have access to Compressed Air at the Field I go to for woodball tournaments.  I want to be able to run this marker on Compressed air but heard the RT has trouble with HPA tanks.
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Mack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2010 at 4:31pm
If you don't already, I would recommend weighing the tank before and after filling. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollyroger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2010 at 7:06pm
With HPA, there is no need for an expansion chamber as it is High Pressure AIR. not a gas. ;-) Expansion chamber is only needed with co2
98 Custom Platinum
Flatline
Bipod
Adjustible Stock
Rufus Dawg Wicked Front Bolt/Power Tube
Expansion Chamber
M4 Style Handle/Sight
Taco Speed Hopper
20 OZ CO2 Tank W/Neoprene Cover
All Camoed
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stryker98c View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stryker98c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2010 at 5:11am

I know HPA doesn't need an expansion chamber but as stated I will be running both. For times when I am playing out in the local woods rather than going to the Predator Zone.  I won't be able to run HPA all the time and don't want any issues when I am running CO2 and right now this gun for me is unacceptable. That's why I was needing some recommendations on an expansion chamber.

Thanks for everyones input.
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