Lt Pike discusion

I haven't looked this up, but I'm almost sure there was a similar case to this 3 to 4 years ago and the department lost some money. The court ruled that peaceful resistance did not require that level of force.

P.S. Everyone freaks when police use a taser, but I'd rather take a short zap than go through OC again.

Heres one of the videos


Another giving them warning



Edited by Rofl_Mao - 21 November 2011 at 7:25pm

Is it OK to OC peaceful protesters as long as they have a "party" major?

evillepaintball wrote: by spraying it directly into the eyes at a close range,

I always thought that was the idea behind tear gas, pepper spray and the like.

Honestly I don't know enough about the US constitution, or about US property law. Here the difference between public and private property does change the response by police to protest action.

We also have a right to assembly, and I'm willing to put the South African constitution up against the US's one on this topic.(in fact I'd be willing to put ours up against yours for most topics) as our goverment was founded on civil protest action. But cops are allowed to do these things as well. With rights comes responsibilities.

The Chancellor called the campus police and told them to remove the protestors. Now I admit I don't know if that was a legal instruction. It might not have been. The thing is police are always outnumbered at these things, and they need some form of force multiplyer. OC spray is exactly that.

This protest was being held in solidarity for some protestors who got hit with battons in Berkly.

Make up your minds people. When a smaller group of people need to dislodge a larger one, they need to use something.

That group of protestors wanted to get sprayed, or were at least ready for it. Notice how everyone is wearing a shemga or scarf? They were ready for it, especially after such a liberal warning from the cops. And they had enough camera men around to ensure "Raaaaaaaaage at police brutality!!!!!!!1111 elebenty" would be able to get air time.

The cops were wrong to spray them. They should have known it was the wrong idea. They should have used a water cannon.

Again, I'll admit I don't know that campus's ladder of force. according to internal processes the pepper spray might have been the right idea. But that isn't a violation then, it is a system error.

impulse418 wrote: The days of making good money with a "party" degree are long gone.

Protip: they were never here.

Kayback wrote:  Here the difference between public and private property does change the response by police to protest action.

Edited by agentwhale007 - 22 November 2011 at 12:11pm

Some agencies consider use of OC spray in the same category as hand techniques. So it depends on that particular department's policy.


The thing that is gonna bite Lt. Pike is that they were passively resisting not actively resisting.

Edited by deadeye007 - 22 November 2011 at 1:35pm

I still give the students a lot of credit for sitting through the OC like that. Really, I got hit with a whiff of regular commercial pepper spray because someone accidentally sprayed it, and it was not pleasant. I imagine that getting blasted in the face with a spray 20x worse continuously would be hell. I dont know if I would go zerg rage on the cop (dumb move that would get me arrested), sit there through it, ball up, or simply run away.

I do not have a copy of their EOF, so I don't know. I do know many places put OC BEFORE going hands on. Things can get very sketchy when you try to wrestle with people. And sitting down arms chained? Good luck getting them apart without using what people will consider "excessive force".

From those videos it does look like the EOF was followed. Each and every protester was given a clear and concise verbal instruction and a warning. They didn't just pull up and start throwing CS grenades.

Again, I do now know the full details of that protest, nor the exact wording of the US constitution with regards to the right to assembly, nor the rules of the campus. There are times and places where protest can be broken up.

I will say I was never tought to aim for the forehead. That's like saying aim for their legs when you start shooting. Especially with an aerosol which will disperse.

Was the initial order to remove the correct? I don't know. I don't know where that order came from. If the counsellor sucked it out her thumb then she was wrong, and the cops were probably wrong in trying it.

It's OK to violate people's rights if you disagree with their political beliefs.

Anyone who disagrees with you is the enemy.


Edited by Brian Fellows - 23 November 2011 at 1:47am