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A health care-related article

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    Posted: 09 June 2012 at 1:51pm
The following is from the Great Falls Tribune.  Link

Discuss.

Originally posted by article article wrote:


Benefis offers deep discounts to Canadians, cash payers


A year ago in January, Ken Reese, of Milk River, Alberta, was working on a vehicle in his farm shop, perched on a stand.

The stand flipped over. Reese, 61, grabbed onto the vehicle to break his fall and ended up tearing his rotator cuff. He went to the doctor and had an ultrasound done. Reese was told it would be four to five months before he could see a surgeon and probably an additional month to month and a half before he could have surgery to fix the tear.

"He just felt that wasn't acceptable," said Ken's wife, Jane.

Jane Reese had seen an ad in the local newspaper for Benefis Health System in Great Falls. She called and was told Ken could get in for surgery in two to three weeks.

He ended up contracting an infection, which delayed the surgery, but in December, the Reeses traveled to Great Falls and Ken underwent shoulder surgery at Benefis.

"We've been just so very, very pleased," Jane Reese said.

Several years ago, Benefis started getting more inquiries from Canadian patients wanting to have surgeries done in Great Falls.

In 2007, Benefis set up a package pricing system that allows Canadian patients to pay an all-inclusive fee that includes their hospital stay, physician bill, anesthesia and other costs.

"When you come down, you pay that price up front," said Stacy Allen, clinical navigator at Benefis.

Because patients pay up-front, the package price is offered at a discount, Allen said. Benefis offers that same discount to any patient, local or Canadian, who pre-pays out of pocket.

In 2007, Benefis also created Allen's position of clinical navigator. Allen is the point of contact for Canadian patients. She helps arrange their doctor appointments, schedules surgeries, helps with hotel reservations and basically walks them through the entire process.

"They are coming to a foreign country," Allen explained. "They're not familiar with our health system."

Initially, most Canadian patients came to Benefis for joint replacements. Back when the package pricing program started, the wait time for a knee replacement in Canada was about two years, said Kathy Hill, chief administrative officer at Benefis.

Now Benefis sees Canadian patients traveling south for a wide range of health care needs, including cornea replacements, gallbladder surgery, plastic surgery and neurosurgery.

While the program has grown over the years, Canadians still represent a fairly small portion of Benefis' business.

"I'd say it's less than 5 percent at this point," Hill said.

In 2011, about 50 Canadian patients received treatment at the hospital.

"I think it's a business that will continue to grow," she said.

The wait time patients face in the Canadian health care system is one factor in that continued growth.

For the Reeses, who are wheat and mustard farmers, waiting six months for surgery would have been devastating for their business.

Ken Reese's surgery cost them about $10,000, but that was money well spent considering they would have had to hire someone to help on the farm, Jane Reese said.

"It was just worth it," she said. "We're way money ahead by having this surgery done."

Graham Good, who ranches in Alberta's Cyprus Hills, had surgery for a herniated disk at Benefis last June.

"I couldn't get anything done up here, and I was having lots and lots of pain," he said.

Good, 29, saw an ad for Benefis in the Medicine Hat News. He decided traveling south for surgery and paying out of pocket was worth it because he was in so much pain.

"I couldn't work, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't walk," he said.

When Good saw a doctor in Great Falls, the doctor told him if he had waited several months to have the surgery done in Canada it would have caused permanent nerve damage.

"I'm quite thankful they were willing to see me," Good said of Benefis.

Patients can write off some of the cost of surgery done in the United States and can sometimes be reimbursed from the Canadian health system as well, Allen said.

His end cost was less than he expected, Good said.

The rise in Canadian business is also due to medical tourism becoming more common worldwide, Hill said.

"There's just so much more visibility of health care now," she said.

The patients who end up at Benefis are likely shopping worldwide.

"We're competing with Turkey and India," Hill said.

Patients look for the best price, but also look at outcomes and infection rates.

"They're well-educated consumers," Allen said.

Like shoppers and vacationers, the number of Canadian patients coming to Benefis closely follows the exchange rate.

Good's drive time to Great Falls is about four hours each way, and he made the trip three times: for a pre-visit, surgery and post-visit. But even with all the travel, Good is glad he opted to have the surgery done in Great Falls.

"Now I'm back to doing my normal activity," he said.


What I want to know is what our northern neighbors do once our health care system becomes like theirs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 2:59pm

For one thing, the US healthcare system is not on the road to becoming like Canada's any time soon (though I wish it were). For another, those with large amounts of cash will always have the option of going somewhere to get served first as long as capital exists.

On a related note, my grandmother was diagnosed with a lung cancer and had it removed within a month and a half of confirmation of the diagnosis... in Canada... for free. If she'd been in the US our family would be dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 3:05pm
Wait like everyone else?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 3:35pm
I don't know where all of these waits are from. Here (at least in New Brunswick) if you have cancer you'll begin your treatment almost immediately within the month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 3:41pm
 
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

I don't know where all of these waits are from. Here (at least in New Brunswick) if you have cancer you'll begin your treatment almost immediately within the month.
You can't write an inflammatory article without cherrypicking a few outliers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

For one thing, the US healthcare system is not on the road to becoming like Canada's any time soon (though I wish it were). For another, those with large amounts of cash will always have the option of going somewhere to get served first as long as capital exists.

On a related note, my grandmother was diagnosed with a lung cancer and had it removed within a month and a half of confirmation of the diagnosis... in Canada... for free. If she'd been in the US our family would be dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.



Yeah I waited a month, maybe two for my surgery this year, so it's not all horror stories like some like to pretend. It's interesting having to learn about my options for while Im down there on my internship.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 3:45pm
Every system has it's pros and cons. Unfortunately our cons often come in the form of thousands of dollars worth of debt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Every system has it's pros and cons. Unfortunately our cons often come in the form of thousands of dollars worth of debt.<div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none">


The most expensive part of my surgery was the cab ride home after. It doesnt help that Vancouver has the most expensive cabs in North America (I believe) but its way better than the hospital bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 3:56pm
 
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

The most expensive part of my surgery was the cab ride home after. It doesnt help that Vancouver has the most expensive cabs in North America (I believe) but its way better than the hospital bill
But what about your freedom?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

 
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

The most expensive part of my surgery was the cab ride home after. It doesnt help that Vancouver has the most expensive cabs in North America (I believe) but its way better than the hospital bill
But what about your freedom?


I'm loving it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Every system has it's pros and cons. Unfortunately our cons often come in the form of thousands of dollars worth of debt.<div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none">


The most expensive part of my surgery was the cab ride home after. It doesnt help that Vancouver has the most expensive cabs in North America (I believe) but its way better than the hospital bill


Given housing costs in Vancouver, it's no wonder you have to have free medical care, otherwise you'd only be able to afford one or the other!
<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Every system has it's pros and cons. Unfortunately our cons often come in the form of thousands of dollars worth of debt.<div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none">


The most expensive part of my surgery was the cab ride home after. It doesnt help that Vancouver has the most expensive cabs in North America (I believe) but its way better than the hospital bill


Given housing costs in Vancouver, it's no wonder you have to have free medical care, otherwise you'd only be able to afford one or the other!


Like the american model
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Every system has it's pros and cons. Unfortunately our cons often come in the form of thousands of dollars worth of debt.
 
There's a flip side to that discussion though.
 
It's the economics free lunch dilemma-costs don't go away when the government pays them, they're simply absorbed en masse by the tax payers. So it's not like simply flipping a switch and saying viola! free healthcare.
 
I think that the trouble with discussing the pros and cons of existing systems is that we may not know all of the cons yet.
 
Not saying I'm against universal healthcare, but I think that both the cost effectiveness of a new system and the ineffectiveness of this current system are both grossly exaggerated. Just because something needs fixed doesn't mean it needs to be completely replaced or drastically altered.
 
Just meat for discussion, if I had an actual solution to endorse I'd be a millionaire Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Every system has it's pros and cons. Unfortunately our cons often come in the form of thousands of dollars worth of debt.<div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none">


The most expensive part of my surgery was the cab ride home after. It doesnt help that Vancouver has the most expensive cabs in North America (I believe) but its way better than the hospital bill


Given housing costs in Vancouver, it's no wonder you have to have free medical care, otherwise you'd only be able to afford one or the other!


Like the american model
 
Eh, I dunno I have good health care and I'm not broke Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 7:18pm
Yeah but stratoaxe what what if a guy knocks you up and you get pregnant? That's $10,000 right there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Yeah but stratoaxe what what if a guy knocks you up and you get pregnant? That's $10,000 right there!



10K for Medicaid maybe ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 8:15pm
Insurance is a (usually) wonderful thing for those fortunate enough to have it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 9:46pm
Have parents that can have a long term job with medical insurance. Don't piss off your parents to where they will still have you under there policy. When you are responsible enough to have a job with health benefits, you can do the same with your children.

I guess I've never had serious medical problems/ have insurance, so that I am unaware of how bad healthcare is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 10:29pm
I've had health insurance since I was a sacker at a grocery store.

Right now I'm at a (basically) entry level job and pay 40 dollars a month for prescription, health, and excellent dental. While obviously we do have a problem with the uninsured rate, I do think that insurance availability isn't as scant as its made out to be.

Family healthcare is very expensive, but then again so are families. If you think insurance is bad wait until you buy formula...but then again, we have WIC programs here so half the people (warning: made up statistic) i saw with kids at the grocery store weren't paying for that either.

It's tough here right now no doubt, but I have serious hesitation on the level at which government intervention helps without hurting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2012 at 10:59pm
For profit healthcare is designed to maximize profits. This entails minimizing payouts, which means that despite the fact that you may have health insurance, it is likely extremely limited in terms of how you can utilize it (pre-existing conditions etc.). I don't believe there is any debate to be had, the express mission of private healthcare is to give you only enough benefits that you will not switch providers or end your plan. In fact there are huge divisions within these companies whose express goal is to deny benefits as often and as broadly as possible.
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