Tippmann Paintball Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > News And Views > Thoughts and Opinions
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Happy Army

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
Author
Message
Clark Kent View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8716
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Happy Army
    Posted: 07 April 2005 at 3:38pm

Since I can't get the link past the filter...

Anybody want to take bets on when this policy goes down?  Political climate is obviously against it now, but I'm guessing that "don't ask, don't tell" is gone in five years or less.  Any takers?

 

 

White House - AP Cabinet & State
AP
**edited** U.S. Soldier Wants to Serve Openly

43 minutes ago
Add to My Yahoo!  White House - AP Cabinet & State

By MALIA RULON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - An Army sergeant who was wounded in Iraq wants a chance to remain in the military as an openly **edited** soldier, a desire that's bringing him into conflict with the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Photo
AP Photo

 

Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, says he has not encountered trouble from fellow soldiers and would like to stay if not for the policy that permits **edited** men and women to serve only if they keep their sexual orientation a secret.

"I know a ton of **edited** men that would be more than willing to stay in the Army if they could just be open," Stout said in an interview with The Associated Press. "But if we have to stay here and hide our lives all the time, it's just not worth it."

Stout, of Utica, Ohio, was awarded the Purple Heart after a grenade sent pieces of shrapnel into his arm, face and legs while he was operating a machine gun on an armored Humvee last May.

He is believed to be the first **edited** soldier wounded in Iraq to publicly discuss his sexuality, said Aaron Belkin, director of the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military at the University of California-Santa Barbara.

"We can't keep hiding the fact that there's **edited** people in the military and they aren't causing any harm," said Stout, who says he is openly **edited** among most of his 26-member platoon, which is part of the 9th Engineer Battalion based in Schweinfurt, Germany.

Stout, who served in Iraq for more than a year as a combat engineer, said by acknowledging he is **edited**, he could be jailed and probably will be discharged before his scheduled release date of May 31.

"The old armchair thought that **edited** people destroy unit camaraderie and cohesion is just wrong," Stout said. "They said the same things when they tried to integrate African-Americans and women into the military."

Before the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, enacted in 1993 under the Clinton administration, the Pentagon had explicitly barred **edited**s from military service. At least 24 countries, including Great Britain, Germany, France, Australia, Canada and Israel, allow **edited**s to serve openly.

In an e-mail following the AP interview, Stout said he had been ordered not to speak to the media. "I guess they found out somehow that I was talking to the press and now they are having a fit. I will try to get everything straightened out," Stout wrote.

Martha Rudd, a spokeswoman for the Army at the Pentagon, said soldiers who are discharged under "don't ask, don't tell" typically receive honorable discharges, although the timing would be up to the individual's commanding officer. She declined to comment about Stout, saying the Army doesn't comment on specific cases.

The issue of whether **edited**s should be allowed to openly serve in the military has received increased attention in recent months as the Army has struggled to meet its recruiting goals. Twelve **edited**s expelled from the military sued the government in December, citing a Supreme Court ruling that declared unconstitutional state laws against homosexual sex.

The Bush administration has asked a federal court to dismiss the lawsuit.

Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey has said he opposes changing the policy, although Pentagon figures show a sharp decline in the number of U.S. military members discharged for making it known they are homosexual, falling from 1,227 in 2001 to 653 last year.

A recent congressional study on the impact of "don't ask, don't tell" said that hundreds of highly skilled troops, including many translators, have left the armed forces because of the rule, at a cost of nearly $200 million, mostly for recruiting and training replacements for 9,500 troops discharged between 1994 and 2003.

Gary Gates, a statistician at the University of California at Los Angeles, estimates there are about 65,000 **edited**s and lesbians currently serving in the military, accounting for about 2.8 percent of all personnel. He estimates that at least 25 **edited** soldiers have been killed in Iraq.

Elaine Donnelly, president of the Center for Military Readiness, a conservative advocacy group that opposes **edited**s serving in the military, said a better way to avoid the cost of replacing soldiers who are discharged for being **edited** is to make it very clear to people who enlist in the military, including Stout, that they are ineligible to serve if they are **edited**.

 

"I honor and respect his service to this country, but the fact that he's wounded really doesn't change the underlying fact. ... He is not eligible to serve," Donnelly said, adding that there are many reasons why people aren't eligible to serve. "This is just one of them."

Stout said he suspected while in high school that he was **edited** but didn't acknowledge it until later. "Then I noticed that it wasn't a phase or anything. This is me," said Stout, who enlisted in the Army after graduating in 2000.

"The 'don't ask, don't tell' policy, when it first came out, was a good stepping stone, but it's outlived its usefulness," he said. "We've progressed past it both as a military and as a society."

Recent media polls indicate some increased public acceptance for allowing **edited**s to serve openly in the military, with more than six in 10 Americans supporting the idea while about half supported it a decade ago. An Annenberg poll taken last fall among members of the military showed a majority opposed to such service, though half of junior enlisted personnel said **edited**s should be allowed to serve openly.

Back to Top
Trogdor2 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05 June 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5899
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trogdor2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 3:48pm
Wow.  They say *homosexual* a lot just by looking at the **edited**'s...
Something unknown is doing we don't know what. That is what our knowledge amounts to. - Sir Arthur Eddington
Back to Top
bluemunky42 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Guested. Middle Finger post.

Joined: 19 December 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1311
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluemunky42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Stout, who served in Iraq for more than a year as a combat engineer, said by acknowledging he is **edited**, he could be jailed and probably will be discharged before his scheduled release date of May 31.

wtf thats bs hes a soldier, he fought for us, and they put him behind bars because of his personal choise? thats garbage, i think they should take that rule away if its true we'd get so many more soldiers
Back to Top
Tae Kwon Do View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Best Forumer of the Year 2006

Joined: 30 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 3:49pm

Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve.

Thems facts buddy.


Back to Top
Dune View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
<placeholder>

Joined: 05 February 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 4:02pm

Ohh Tae, I knew you'd say it first.

Anyways, the rule is ridiculous and the fact that being openly homosexual in the military can have a discriminating effect proves that our country is still not as 'free' as it claims to be.

Back to Top
Tae Kwon Do View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Best Forumer of the Year 2006

Joined: 30 July 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 4:06pm

My serious opinion. An openly homosexual man or woman can pull the trigger and end a life as good as a breeder can. Toss them a rifle.


Back to Top
Sammy View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 20 July 2002
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Points: 4076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sammy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 4:16pm
I think it's a good rule, but it does have it's problems. Maybe they need to come up with a new policy for homosexuals in the militay.
Back to Top
Dune View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
<placeholder>

Joined: 05 February 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 4:26pm
No rule needed. No restriction, no policy, just tolerance and the learned skill of acceptance.
Back to Top
98God View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Ya, the joke did get you Strike 1

Joined: 15 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3727
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 98God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 4:29pm
I don't see the big deal..
Back to Top
Hitman View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Why yes, I am JUST THAT cool, thx...

Joined: 14 January 2004
Location: Halifax, NS
Status: Offline
Points: 5122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 4:31pm
They are no different, let them in.

The big deal is that, he fought for his country. He was wounded for his country. And he may be placed in jail for something that shouldn't be a crime.


Edited by Hitman
[IMG]http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4874/stellatn8.jpg">

Back to Top
Hades View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 2003
Location: Virgin Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 13014
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 1:03am


I dont want another man looking at my bare hiney in the makeshift shower after I get done fragging Iraqis all day in the hot afternoon sun.

Plus there are practically no women over there so that means he would be after me to try to make me homosexual too.. Oh no!

Back to Top
Hysteria View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Strike 2 - Language, 9/25

Joined: 02 February 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4364
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hysteria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 1:16am
A law is a law weiher you agree with it or not.  I do not agree that pot should be illegal, but it is.  If I go smoke it in front of a cop I will get arrested.  He broke the law, he should pay the consequences.
Back to Top
Thor View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar
Mr. Pink

Joined: 21 June 2002
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1459
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 4:16am
Well, whether we like to admit it or not....showering next to man of a different orientation would be rather uncomfortable....but i've met alot of peoplelike it around the unit and don't generally have a problem s long as they aren't openly effeminite
A second class drive is always better than a first class walk.

Back to Top
Badsmitty View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member

Parental Advisory Non Conformist

Joined: 22 July 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 4:17am

Abomination.  When Jesus wrote the Bible he clearly said that.



Edited by Badsmitty
Back to Top
Bugg View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
One screw up and all screen names go

Joined: 16 February 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bugg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 6:37am
Technically, once they admit to being ghey they arenot allowed in the military.. which to avoid sounding bad, is all right with me....

gheys aren't allowed in and women can't be on the front line, thats the rules get used to it
(Granted some women can kick mens ass in figting...)
Back to Top
Bugg View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
One screw up and all screen names go

Joined: 16 February 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bugg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 6:40am
Also if a ghey was in the same squad as a homophob, bat consenquences, fighting and at base
Back to Top
*Stealth* View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Watermarked

Joined: 31 October 2002
Location: Ethiopia
Status: Offline
Points: 10717
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stealth* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 6:45am
It's one of Prod's own kind.



WHO says eating pork is safe, but Mexicans have even cut back on their beloved greasy pork tacos. - MSNBC on the Swine Flu
Back to Top
Bugg View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
One screw up and all screen names go

Joined: 16 February 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bugg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 6:46am
Prod-->
Back to Top
Dune View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
<placeholder>

Joined: 05 February 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 6:55am
So the homophob gets to stay, but the homosexual has to sit in jail? Ridiculous.
Back to Top
Dazed View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Romped around naked in thorn bushes

Joined: 13 February 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3876
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2005 at 7:59am
Originally posted by Bugg Bugg wrote:

Also if a ghey was in the same squad as a homophob, bat consenquences, fighting and at base


Thats like saying no minorities should be let in, because they would cause disruptions with the racist whites, bat consequences and fighting.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.563 seconds.