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Interesting Free Speech Issue....

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Hades View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 December 2005 at 2:25pm
Suspended star ballplayers wrote of setting teacher on fire

Student journals spark legal fight
Suspended star ballplayers wrote of setting teacher on fire

Friday, December 2, 2005; Posted: 10:32 a.m. EST (15:32 GMT)

SANTA ANA, California (AP) -- In classroom journals, two star football players wrote in graphic detail about killing their high school English teacher by dousing her in gasoline and setting her on fire.

But in court papers, they say their teacher told them those entries would never be read, so they should be considered private thoughts, not threats.

Scott McKnight, 17, and Sam Smith, 18, were not criminally charged, but were suspended and face expulsion.

An Orange County Superior Court judge is scheduled to rule Friday on whether the full journals should be sealed or open to the public.

McKnight and Smith and their parents say in a court complaint that teacher Alyssa DiSomma violated their privacy by reading the journals. They argue they should be allowed to attend school as they await their expulsion hearing.

The students were suspended October 20 after DiSomma reported the entries to school officials.

The case has divided Tesoro High School in the affluent suburb of Rancho Santa Margarita, where the teens were ranked among the top football players in Orange County.

The entries refer to gluing the teacher naked to a wall and cutting off her feet, and killing her family while she watches, according to court documents that quote partial excerpts.

The teens' family members have said the two wrote the entries as a prank and egged each other on.

"I am planning on coming in your room late one night while you're still working," reads one partial entry. "I will smother you in gasoline and light your head on fire."

Orange County Superior Court Judge Corey S. Cramin ruled that the journal entries could not be considered private. The court also upheld the teens' suspension.

"Private thoughts lose their identity as such when they are reduced to writing as part of a class assignment and turned into the teacher for grading," Cramin wrote in the ruling last month.

The court said it couldn't keep McKnight and Smith from playing for the Tesoro Titans pending their expulsion hearing -- but the two were benched anyway because of California Interscholastic Federation rules. By the time the disciplinary process is finished, the season is likely to be over.

An expulsion hearing was postponed until late December at the request of the boys' attorneys.

David Smollar, spokesman for the Capistrano Unified School District, said that efforts by the boys' attorneys to "play to public opinion" have hurt the district's ability to conduct a normal disciplinary process.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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oreomann33 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oreomann33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 2:36pm
If you want to kill someone you get a gun and shoot them not douse them in gasoline. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cdacda13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 2:42pm
The teacher said they would not be read, therefore the teacher lied.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pbdude985 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 2:47pm
wow thats pretty crazy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Paint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:25pm
I don't think this is really free speech, if this was said in open it would be a threat.

But if it was a joke that they just did between themselves, they shouldnt get in trouble, as it was private.


On a seperate note, my friend did that to a lesser degree.  We had to right about a first memory, and he wrote about his dad getting mad. And then to end the entry, it said "I will always have this scar to remind me, if I should ever forget." 

The scar was actually from a baseball game, and he wrote entries like this for a semester.  Then parent teacher night kinda showed her that his parents weren't like that at all.  Kinda funny.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:28pm
I bet the two kids are not the smartest of the class...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sammy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by cdacda13 cdacda13 wrote:

The teacher said they would not be read, therefore the teacher lied.

But a teacher doesn't have to fufill that. It isn't the same as a doctor and patient.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Hui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 4:21pm

I dont think it was a threat, they where writing a story. not say

"I am going to  come decapitate you, drink your blood, and fill my bathtub with it" to her, they just wrote a violent story using a familiar name

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 4:47pm
My grade 12 english teacher had a dream about me trying to kill her...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heres To You Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by cdacda13 cdacda13 wrote:

The teacher said they would not be read, therefore the teacher lied.


If the teacher lied, it's her fault for looking.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Koolit32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 6:21pm
as in all schools the issue is them not being able to be star football players

OMGOSH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2005 at 10:09pm
Well legaly, if it was just one kid writing in his journal, it wouldnt be a threat, just a journal entry, but because it was between the two boys, that excuse goes out the window.

I think perhaps its just that they are a little stupid, i doubt it was meant as a threat. They are just a couple of idiot kids.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2005 at 10:08am

Originally posted by Koolit32 Koolit32 wrote:

as in all schools the issue is them not being able to be star football players

OMGOSH

Bingo.

If it was a couple of loser emo kids in the back doing this, and they got cought and kicked out, nobody would care.

You make it a couple of star football players who cant play now, and its suddenly an issue.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluemunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2005 at 11:23am
Originally posted by DBibeau855 DBibeau855 wrote:


I think perhaps its just that they are a little stupid, i doubt it was meant as a threat. They are just a couple of idiot kids.

My thoughts exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Hui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2005 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by Koolit32 Koolit32 wrote:

as in all schools the issue is them not being able to be star football players

OMGOSH

Bingo.

If it was a couple of loser emo kids in the back doing this, and they got cought and kicked out, nobody would care.

You make it a couple of star football players who cant play now, and its suddenly an issue.

yep

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2005 at 12:51pm
Well then, maybe it is a lesson in life that Jock > Emo kids.

And someone please show me an Emo man with a hot lady on his sleeve.... Is it even possible?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zesty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2005 at 1:21pm
On the whole teacher's are losers, kinda like cops....people for some reason think or would hope I guess that they have better morals than the average person, but they're most the time worse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2005 at 1:28pm

Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:


And someone please show me an Emo man with a hot lady on his sleeve.... Is it even possible?

Even if it was, you couldnt tell the guy from the girl.....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2005 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Well then, maybe it is a lesson in life that Jock > Emo kids.

And someone please show me an Emo man with a hot lady on his sleeve.... Is it even possible?


And how many metal fans get hot ladies? All they have is long greasy hair and various tattoo's of meaningless images that look bad ass.


Edited by Hitman
[IMG]http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/4874/stellatn8.jpg">

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cedric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2005 at 4:35pm

That guy gets all the girls.

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