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98 Expansion Camber/HPA

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JohnnyBee View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 June 2010 at 7:26am
Hey all,

If I have an expansion chamber on my 98 right now for Co2 but plan on upgrading to HPA eventually, do i have to remove the Expansion Chamber or can I leave it on the gun? Or will it effect the HPA negatively in anyway? Reason I'm asking is because I plan on keeping my Co2 tank around as back up to the HPA for any reason and in the case I do need to switch back to Co2 I'd have the Expansion chamber on my gun. Thanks for any help.

Johnny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 11:10am
Depends on the expansion chamber.  Some restrict the flow of compressed air sufficiently to interfere with operation and some don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 2:31pm
oh. well what about the Tippmann brand expansion chamber?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 6:23pm
As was suggested in another thread, get a Palmer's Stabilizer instead and you won't have to worry about either.  Plus, it'll be much nicer to the marker (using CO2) than the expansion chamber will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 6:29pm
So a Palmer's Stabilizer is like an expansion chamber? And can I just keep it on my 98c PS at all times and use either co2 or HPA through it with no worries?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 7:58pm
It is a regulator, but it does a mighty fine job of keeping the liquid out of the marker.  And, yes, it is omnigas, so you can swap back and forth with little hassle.

And am I safe to assume that you've never used a reg before?  If so, then don't expect magic with it right out of the box.  It will need to be broken in, and for best performance, it should be tuned to the marker.  But that's easier than it sounds and I can point you in the right direction if you decide to get a reg.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2010 at 9:04am
Thanks Hubb. Yes if a regulator will let me swap back and forth between Co2 and HPa with problems while still giving me the results of an expansion chamber when using co2 then yes Ill go with a Palmer stabilizer. But could anyone put up a link to one that might be best for my situationand 98c Ps? I've never purchased nor used a regulator. Thanks for any help.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hubb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2010 at 6:18pm
Most people usually get a vert asa adapter (the one that goes into the front grip, then place a male asa Stab there.  But I would suggest browsing around Palmer's Pursuit Shop.  There are so many configurations that it's kinda hard to get you the very specific one that you want. 

Edited by Hubb - 10 June 2010 at 6:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2010 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by Hubb Hubb wrote:

Most people usually get a vert asa adapter (the one that goes into the front grip, then place a male asa Stab there.  But I would suggest browsing around Palmer's Pursuit Shop.  There are so many configurations that it's kinda hard to get you the very specific one that you want. 
Except as noted in Johnnys other thread, he has Platinum series 98. Due to the way the gas line connects to the PT, you cannot do this, nor are they making a vertical adapter for it. You will have to run a stabilzer that replaces the stock ASA. Essentially, you would need:
 
 
Unless they are making an adapter of sorts. But seriously, by the time you spend $110+, why not just buy and HPA tank and be done with it?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 10:14am
Thanks for the info everyone. So what your saying oldpbnoob is that if i decide to go with a stabilizer instead of the expansion chamber then why not just spend the money and get a HPA tank? because the HPA tank has a regulator already on it right? Didn't think of it. lol. It makes sense. But I guess its because I wanted to be able to expand co2 in the case that I would need to switch of HPA and to a back up co2 tank. Like if I ran out of HPA early on in the day. But if you guys think getting an xchamber or a stabilizer for this reason is not logical then ill look into just going straight for the HPA system. Thanks again for all the help.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 10:21am
I guess it depends on your situation. If you are primarily planning on playing outlaw or renegade ball, essentially on private property not a commercial field, that does not have readily available HPA fills, than you actually would be better off sticking with CO2. Bottles are cheaper and you can probably get them filled easier. If you are playing at commercial fields that have on site HPA fills, which most do these days,  than simply go with HPA. By the same token, metal HPA tanks have come pretty far down in price and you can get them for as low as $40 if you keep your eyes open. With the money that you would spend on a Stab, you could buy at least two tanks, if not three. But again, if you are playing at commercial fields, you only really need one. A lot depends on whats available in your area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 10:27am
Yeah. I mainly play on private fields where there are no refills. But I still want to go HPA to increase my consistency/accuracy. But thats why i would have a co2 tank as back up due to the fact that there are no refills and why i wanted to get the most out of my gun while using co2 as well. But I want a system that will allow me to still change between hpa and co2 with not adjusting and was hoping that I could do this with the tippmann xchamber but then the stabilizer was mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 10:29am
Also, what's the lowest I can spend on a hpa/n2 tank that is still a good quality brand? That being said, what are the top trusted brands for hpa as I don't want to buy something too cheap that will explode in my face lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 10:46am
You will not be able to change between air sources without rechronoing. It's not possible and actually unsafe. If you plan on playing at private fields, you will need to invest in a handheld chronograph to be sure you are shooting at a safe FPS, <300. Even with CO2, when changing between tanks, you will need to rechrono due to variances in tank temperature, valve condition etc.  With that said, it really isn't that much of a hassle to rechrono, simply turn of the velocity screw and you're good to go.  However, there is no magic number of turns that will get you to a safe FPS consistently. The ONLY safe way to be certain is by using a chronograph.
 
The main difference in prices of tanks is between carbon fiber tanks and metal tanks. CF tanks tend to be considerably more money. However, they are also much lighter and capable of containing higher pressure, thus more shots per tank. Main difference you get into with higher end tanks if the recharge rate of the regulators. For your use, you really shouldn't have to worry about this too much. Just make sure you get a tank with a High Output regulator 600psi+ and you'll be fine. I don't have a preference of one brand over another. Pure Energy makes good inexpensive metal tanks. Check Actionvillage or Paintball-discounters.com for tank deals.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 11 June 2010 at 10:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 12:03pm
oh I never meant that I wouldn't chrono. What I meant and what originally posted was that I didn't know if I could put an xchamber on my 98 and run HPA/n2 through it or would I have to take the xchamber off when i wanted to use HPA. I was hoping that I could have a xchamber and simply run HPA and co2 through it. And the reason being was in the case that If I would need to switch to c02 I would still be getting efficiency due to the xchamber. Chronoing after swapping goes without saying. I meant that i wanted to swap without having to change anything physically on the gun. I want to be able to Take HPA tank off, put co2 tank on, chrono, play. Is that possible/ logical? Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 12:13pm
You can. You may have to adjust the output pressure of the stab as well, but yes it can be done. There is a fine line with a stabilizer in getting good efficiency and starving the marker. I had one on my RT'd 98C and didn't care for it. Also tried it on my E-gripped A-5 and just didn't have the patience to fiddle with it to get it to work right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 12:23pm
Then to make things easier. Will the tippmann brand xchamber of their site work the way that Im hoping or no? Or would I definitely need a stabilizer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 12:37pm
No matter what you do, CO2 will not be as stable/consistent as HPA. And expansion chamber may help by have somewhere for the liquid to expand into a gas, but it will not give the consistency that you are desiring. I have always felt that the main use/reason for and expansion chamber was to help eliminate freeze over from firing too fast and not allowing the CO2 to expand properly. Yes it can help with consistency, but even with a Stabilizer, CO2 will not be as consistent as HPA. And even with HPA, you will get some inconsistency between shots.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2010 at 12:50pm
I understand completely. But in the case that i would have to switch to co2 over hpa I was hoping to have my 98 perform as good as it could and I figured having an xchamber would help. But again I was worried that I would have to take off and on the xchamber when i went back to hpa.

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It should be fine.
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