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Water/Hydrogen powered vehicles
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impulse418 View Drop Down
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off the hook four days early <3 <3 <3

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    Posted: 02 May 2011 at 6:57pm
Why are we still using petroleum to power our vehicles? Why can auto manufactures only produce vehicles that get maybe 40 MPG?

You are telling me, Joe Schmoe, can watch a youtube video. Buy a drill press, some good bits, and the components from any Home Depot . And in a few hours build a hydrogen generator in their garage? But the big 'ol auto manufactures cannot? Give me a break. But people will spends thousands on a new hybrid vehicle, that only gets a measly 50 mpg. When they could of spent $200, and got the same gas mileage out of the vehicle they already owned.

How expensive does gas have to get, for us to finally say enough is enough.

(inb4 conspiracy theories)
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Points: 4626 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2011 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:



How expensive does gas have to get, for us to finally say enough is enough.



$6.23


Give or take a nickel.
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
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Donald Blake View Drop Down
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Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:


You are telling me, Joe Schmoe, can watch a youtube video. Buy a drill press, some good bits, and the components from any Home Depot . And in a few hours build a hydrogen generator in their garage? But the big 'ol auto manufactures cannot?


Build a "hydrogen generator?"  Sure.  Build a hydrogen generator and associated hydrogen-fueled vehicle that is actually energy efficient?  That's another matter entirely.  Not to mention a hydrogen-powered vehicle that is safer than a 1975 Ford Pinto.

And even if "they" built it, there would need to be an entire refueling infrastructure built up...

Hydrogen cars are a waste of time.
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Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:



How expensive does gas have to get, for us to finally say enough is enough.



$6.23


Give or take a nickel.

It's not an exact science
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impulse418 View Drop Down
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off the hook four days early <3 <3 <3

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Originally posted by Donald Blake Donald Blake wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:


You are telling me, Joe Schmoe, can watch a youtube video. Buy a drill press, some good bits, and the components from any Home Depot . And in a few hours build a hydrogen generator in their garage? But the big 'ol auto manufactures cannot?

.  Not to mention a hydrogen-powered vehicle that is safer than a 1975 Ford Pinto.



You are regurgitating that BS?
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Donald Blake View Drop Down
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Which BS in particular?  That hydrogen is more volatile than gasoline?  Or that gases are more difficult to contain than liquids?
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impulse418 View Drop Down
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off the hook four days early <3 <3 <3

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Originally posted by Donald Blake Donald Blake wrote:

Which BS in particular?  That hydrogen is more volatile than gasoline?  Or that gases are more difficult to contain than liquids?


The construction of hydrogen tanks being thousands of times stronger than gasoline tanks. Ever worked with a gasoline tank, its made of pot metal.

Or the fat that hydrogen will out run the flame. While gasoline will pool on the ground and burn you alive.
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... and gasoline tanks cost about $20 to make. 

... and hydrogen may outrun the flame in the open, but not so much in an enclosed space.

Here is a picture of hydrogen "outrunning the flame:"
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off the hook four days early <3 <3 <3

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If you have a car that is covered in canvas, and built a century ago. You have bigger problems.

I like pictures too!
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Those Hydrogen generators actually take more energy out of the system then they put in. By consuming the electricity required in hydrolysis from the current circuit, you make the engine work harder and the overall benefit of the hydrogen is rendered mute.

Look it up if you like. 
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Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:



How expensive does gas have to get, for us to finally say enough is enough.



$6.23


Give or take a nickel.

$3.50
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DOT will never let hydrogen tanks out there unless they were so armor plated the weight would be too much for power ratio. DOT would not even allow the Peterbilt Class 8 semi with a small diesel 100hp motor turning an alternator to charge batteries and a full electric drive just as rail locomotives use. The DOT reasoning was the amount of batteries and battery chemicals even when housed in between the massive frame rails, was as they called it, an explosive/spill risk. The hydrogen gas released from battery charging I guess. Now consider the DOT reasoning of a full tank of hydrogen even the size of a propane tank going 'BOOM' in a test collision, don't see the tech going far, potential yes, but not at today's tech level.
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gas is like $4.25 in my town.
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Originally posted by *Stealth* *Stealth* wrote:

Those Hydrogen generators actually take more energy out of the system then they put in. 

To be fair, every combustion machine takes more energy to perpetuate than what is put towards propulsion.

But yeah, if we're talking about the "Garage science" guy, he did something a thousand other people have done before. You buy the hydrogen kit out of a magazine, attach it to your car either using the alternator or another carried battery sources, crank your car, and think you've invented the wheel.  

Catch is that the car almost never has enough power to actually move. But hey, the headlights work. 
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Man, impulse is doing a troll roll recently!
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Electric motor running an alternator.  Profit.
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Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

Electric motor running an alternator.  Profit.

Not quite. 

Anyway, hydrogen is junk. With all of the modern amenities, if the auto manufacturers wanted to make 40+ MPG cars, they can and would. Europe has gazillions of them around. A 1972 Pacer would get  an upwards of 30+ MPG, and that was with three-speed autos and carburetors.

Just like how if I really wanted to and had some extra space, I could make my own fuel if I wanted. (Ethanol, anyone?). 

IMO, if I were to design my own fleet of eco-cars, they would consist of electric cars with a diesel generator. Fuel shortage? No problem, use grease.
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Points: 12014 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2011 at 12:41pm
I'm not really as down on hydrogen as our lovely new other-worldly friend, but I do recognize that functional hydrogen vehicles are a lot farther off than most people think they are. 

I think they'll get there eventually, but for now, electric and electric/hybrid are a better first-step. 
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Whale, I can't stop staring at your sig and hearing  "doop, doop doop...etc"
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Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

DOT will never let hydrogen tanks out there unless they were so armor plated the weight would be too much for power ratio. DOT would not even allow the Peterbilt Class 8 semi with a small diesel 100hp motor turning an alternator to charge batteries and a full electric drive just as rail locomotives use. The DOT reasoning was the amount of batteries and battery chemicals even when housed in between the massive frame rails, was as they called it, an explosive/spill risk. The hydrogen gas released from battery charging I guess. Now consider the DOT reasoning of a full tank of hydrogen even the size of a propane tank going 'BOOM' in a test collision, don't see the tech going far, potential yes, but not at today's tech level.


This.  Sure, we can (and do) build safe hydrogen containers, but they are too bulky and/or expensive to be functional with consumer vehicles.  We can use a $20 tin can for a gas tank because gasoline isn't all that volatile.  Hydrogen requires extraordinary containment measures.

But more to the point, why bother with hydrogen?  It's just a battery, and not a particularly good one.
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