More Religious Thoughts...

Came across this excellent Wall Street Journal article about church attendance in Europe:  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118434936941966055.html?mod= home_we_banner_left

The article is longish, but really good and interesting.

tl;dr = church attendance is down in Europe because state-sponsored churches don't have competition and become boring.  Chuch attendance is up in the US because secular government forces churches to compete, which makes churches kickass.

So I guess this means that socialism IS godless - sort of.

SandMan wrote: ... The more people are forced to go to ONE church with ONE system of beliefs, the less they seek faith and enlightenment outside themselves. Also, the longer a given church hangs around, without being challenged to constantly re-examine its self, the staler its message and the clarity of its purpose becomes.

That was the main thing I took from the article as well.  As a hardcore capitalist, I am amused by this, but not surprised.

SandMan wrote: (Quoted from article) The enemy of faith, say the supply-siders, is not modernity but state-regulated markets that shield big, established churches from competition. I would take that even further to say that, from my observation, broadly organizing ANY faith system seems to kill both its purity and its potency. I personally abandoned "the church" (of any organized religion) many years ago. To me, faith and belief have to be personal. Once you turn it into a building with mortgage payments and bills, religion becomes business... Which just kills everything. As I compare that to the study posted here, I definitely see some similarities... The more people are forced to go to ONE church with ONE system of beliefs, the less they seek faith and enlightenment outside themselves. Also, the longer a given church hangs around, without being challenged to constantly re-examine its self, the staler its message and the clarity of its purpose becomes. Hence the critical need for freedom of religion and separation of same from the governing body.

This is why I like most of America's Churches, there is far less large scale organization of church bodies, like that of the Catholic Church. But there is still the common feeling, for the most part, that we are all a part of the same Church.

What can I say, we baptists rock!

But on a more serious note, I really wish and indeed pray that all christian denomonations could come together again and simply be what we are supposed to be; The Church.

SandMan wrote: Ew... That seems like a horrible idea to me. The "one church" thing sounds like a good theory on the surface, but it just doesn't work well.

All I'm saying it is sad how we fight among ourselves, when we all believe in Jesus.

(sorry for the double post)

SandMan wrote: To tell you the truth, and this is definitely not intended to offend, but I'm not sure I believe in the same Jesus that the Baptists (or Nazarenes or AG or any other organized church) believe in. To me, they believe in their own version that's been colored by years of religion and robbed of its purity.

How so?

I'm not trying to start another religious debate, I'm just curious because I think I agree with you ( at least If you are saying what I think you are saying), I beleive too many Christians today are too focused on religion, and not a relationship with Jesus. Which (going back to the original topic) is one reason I think church going in Europe is down.