Confederate flag and Iron Cross

Something has been bugging me as of recently about the aforementioned symbols. Let me begin by saying that I have both German and Southern backgrounds. In fact, 2 out of the 4 sets of Great Grandparents I have came directly off the boat from Germany, so to speak. In this so called great age of understanding and tolerance that we supposedly live in, why are these symbols still looked down upon as the forefront of the racist movements that are still very much alive in our great country? I have no problem with any minority whatsoever, yet when I proudly display the symbols of my heritage, people feel the need to make undue trouble for me.

People say discrimination is one of the worst things you can do to anyone anymore, especially minorities. Well let me ask you this- what about the "majority" (I'm talking about white males, even though we're technically not the majority anymore)? Don't you think we feel discriminated against when people assume that we are racist when most of us are not? Also, there in lies the problem- when you assume white males are racist, you yourself are being racist towards us.

That being said, let me give a little history lesson to try to enlighten you to the fact that the Iron Cross and the Confederate Flag are not racist symbols. The Confederate Flag was once a nation's flag, just as the stars and stripes is our flag now. The only reason why the south wanted to keep its slaves was because they didn't think they would be able to function as a nation at the time and would crumble. Keep this in mind- almost all of the labor done in that time period was done by slaves. The southerners were afraid that if we freed them then they would just run off, and thus not leaving anyone to do the work (we later found out that the country was strong enough to continue on without slave labor). On a final note, whether you want to realize it or not, our country wouldn't be even half as strong as it is today if it weren't for the slave labor. Now I'm not saying it was good thing to enslave an entire race (well, except for the ones we left in Africa), it's far from it. What I'm saying is that our country gained its strength through cheap and free labor, just as it is today with migrant workers coming up from the mexican border.

Now as for the Iron Cross, this is probably the least misunderstood of the 2. People see an Iron Cross and they think "nazi", when this is completely false. This symbol of German Heritage was developed by the melding of many of the ancient Germanic tribes' symbols into one unified symbol, meant to, well, unify them as one. This symbol is just as much a part of a race's culture and heritage as the Celtic Cross is for the Irish. Why must people continually be ignorant of the meaning of different symbols? If you dig enough, you'll find that even the Swastika was not originally made to be a racist symbol.

So please, I ask you to think differently from now on when you see the Confederate flag and Iron Cross.

So you're willing to stomp on his rights to display the stars and bars or an iron cross?  Well, isn't this convenient...

Anyone see the new southpark?

"idiot redneck"  So now its name calling too.  You're not really making any point other than you don't like it.  Using this same thinking, I'd imagine that the Christian cross should also be dismissed due to the inquisition? Lots of innocent people were killed there too.

I don't like flag burning but I'll defend your right to do it. In fact, I did... This is what "freedom" and "liberty" is about.

No, I'm making the point that our society as a whole doesn't like it, and for good reason too. The cross thing doesn't fit because the Inquisition isn't the main event or context in which that symbol is recognized or in which it was used....And yeah, I called him a name. I don't usually do that, however if he is running around proudly displaying the battle flag of an enemy nation and calling it his heritage or a sign of "southern pride"(which, in my mind, shows a contempt for his real nationality), the name fits nicely.

But yeah, I'm with ya there. If he got arrested for doing it, I'd be pissed because his rights were infringed upon and the underlying ideals of this nation were flushed down the toilet. He's still an idiot for doing it though.

what about the swastica? (not spelled correctly)

is it bad to show that sign off?

guess it depends on the way you mean it

because the nazis took the symbol as their own.

Edited by carl_the_sniper - 10 March 2007 at 2:45am

oldsoldier wrote: The Civil War was an issue of states rights over federal mandates

Bingo!

Too many people are caught up in the idea the civil war was about slavery.  It had very little to do with slavery, the south was acting more and more like an independent nation, the republicans in control drove the issue of slavery more to hurt the south then to liberate blacks, upsetting many democrats and more moderate republicans.  True, the war did result in the end of slavery, but that was a byproduct.

Yes, we tend to associate the symbol with the atrocities which might be connected to it, but by no means does that make the symbol evil.  The Swastika was a symbol of love, good fortune and overall a positive symbol.  Its meaning has changed to some people after the horrors of WWII but the symbol itself is the same.

Now perhaps the last example justifies vilifying the symbols, but it still doesn't mean the symbol loses all positive meaning.  Regardless, hating the symbol is stupid.  Hating the negatives associated with the symbol is one thing, but not the symbol itself.

Further more, to suggest the confederate flag be not displayed goes against the very fabric of the United States.

i dont understand why people associate the confederate flag with people being morons or rednecks, etc. keep in mind its also the state flag of i think alabama, im not 100% sure what state it is. so your saying that they should be ashamed of their state flag bc of its historic ties? thats like me being ashamed of my NYS flag bc hillary clinton is here...its just a flag, personally i think its a cool design.

You must understand, in order to keep up the racism issues of today alive, icons and symbols must be catorgorized. The 88 years of sanctioned slavery under the Stars and Stripes is overshadowed by need of the few for the 4 years of sanctioned slavery under the Stars and Bars.

Historically almost anyone can trace a ancestrial line back to some ancestor who was a slave to one of the worlds great empires. Can I see the Italians as desendants of the Roman Empire, hense responsible for my Celtic ansestors being enslaved under thier empire.
Most settlers to the Americas came here as endentured servants in the early days, another form of slavery, yet overlooked.