Abortion? |
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SandMan
Platinum Member More like Rip Van Winkle AmIRite? Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3907 |
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So, your stance is... Because we don't know for certain whether the fetus should have individual rights... Screw 'em.
Now we're going back to the parallel I drew between this issue and spousal abuse. Using your same logic, people justified beating their wives and owning human beings as slaves. They did horrible things to people with rights because they assumed those people didn't truly have rights of their own. |
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Solipsism
Member 300 million WHAT?! Joined: 11 February 2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1850 |
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Which is why one is fine with me while the other is not. Edited by Solipsism |
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SandMan
Platinum Member More like Rip Van Winkle AmIRite? Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3907 |
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Right, for two reasons:
- We haven't bothered to make the legal distinction defining the point at which a fetus has rights of its own. - We're talking about killing instead of just injuring. Both boil down to the rights of the other. And, if you'll read my post above, my official position is that we need to know more about what rights we should apply to whom and when. |
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Solipsism
Member 300 million WHAT?! Joined: 11 February 2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1850 |
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Abortion is a little bit different than beating the crap out of a woman.
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SandMan
Platinum Member More like Rip Van Winkle AmIRite? Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3907 |
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That argument could just as easily be used to support wife battering... And, in fact, WAS at one time. (Look up the origin of the "rule of thumb".) But before you get angry, read my post above ^^^. |
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Solipsism
Member 300 million WHAT?! Joined: 11 February 2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1850 |
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Pro choice, its none of my concern so Im not going to take part in restricting a freedom of the female gender that doesn't affect me in any way at all.
Besides, abortion clinics are great places to pick up women. |
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SandMan
Platinum Member More like Rip Van Winkle AmIRite? Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3907 |
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Hehe... Enos has fallen off of his pedastal of neutrality...
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SandMan
Platinum Member More like Rip Van Winkle AmIRite? Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3907 |
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The terms "pro-choice" and "pro-life" are meaningless slogans adopted by politically bent zealots riding a wave of their own assumptions. No one seems to care about the issue at hand:
IF the fetus is an independent life, then there can be no choice. (Hey lefties, don't allow your rectal cavities to lock up at this point. Here me out.) Willfully taking the life of another human being is murder. HOWEVER IF the fetus is effectively a growth in the woman's body, she should have the right to have it medically removed up to the point that it becomes an independent life. WHAT'S THE ANSWER? The answer cannot be found until we use our brains and adequately define the question. Stop riding political bandwagons and personal agendas and honestly seek a truthful, equitable resolution. The question, in short form, is: When does the fetus become and independent life of the type that murder laws become effective? WHY WE'LL NEVER FIND THE ANSWER... Because people don't want the truth. They want what they want. Most people, in fact, are afraid of what the truth might be. Sadly, that has ever been true and shows no promise of change. |
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Ejp414
Platinum Member Joined: 13 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6483 |
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Well, jeeze, Enos, you're not stereotyping at all. |
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Enos Shenk
Platinum Member ~-o@ Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: A comfy chair Status: Offline Points: 14109 |
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While i dont partiularly like abortion, im a libertarian. Completely pro-choice.
As Jay said "Me and Silent Bob are pro choice, a womans body is her own ****** business" Anti-abortion people are disgusting anyway. I went downtown to hit the main library one day, and there was some guy standing across the street with some giant sign with a dead baby on it, like all smashed up and torn apart. I started yelling at him, i told him i would wager almost anything he was one of those cult of christ idiots that think video games are corrupting the youth, and there he is standing on a public streetcorner with a picture of a dead baby. |
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Slothbutt
Platinum Member Cant find the short bus Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2617 |
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I am Pro-Life.
Actually my philosophy class studied this alittle bit. I think Jim Stones argument for the wrongfullness of abortion is a good one. -Premise 1. Healthy infants have a powerful claim to our protection and we wrong them seriously if we kill them. -Premise 2. There are no morally relevant differences between infants and fetuses. -Conclusion- Therefor, healthy fetuses have a powerful claim to our protection and we wrong them seriously if we kill them. A morally relevant reason is one that would justify different treatment. He goes on to show there are no morally relevant differences between infants and fetuses. Birth-There is no significant difference 5min before and 5min after birth. Viability- They need more care from there mother so that gives us a right to kill them? Sentient-They can't "feel" the first few months. So we have the right to kill people in that are in a temperary comma who arn't sentient? Human form- They look like a bund of cells or a tad-pole. Isn't this the same a racism or sexism. It's only looks. So he shows you have to agree with the second premise and if you want to deny the conclusion you have to some how disprove the first premise. If you are intrested in this topic I suggest you read The Morality of Abortion: An exchange, by Jim Stone. |
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ekeboo
Gold Member strike 1 5/1 Filter dodge Joined: 23 May 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1394 |
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I am pro life if there is danger to the mother then she can have an abortion in my mind
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choopie911
Moderator Group Commie Canuck Joined: 01 June 2003 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 30773 |
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Sorry, should have been more clear. If the child is going to die shortly after birth for sure, then ok, abortion is an option. If it is hazardous, or it was an accidental pregnancy, and will not be able to support the child, or maybe not be physically able to give birth, then ok. Also, if the person was a victim of sexual assault, and the child was conceived against the mothers will, then agani, abortion could be an option. |
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Tae Kwon Do
Platinum Member Best Forumer of the Year 2006 Joined: 30 July 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6120 |
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I used to be pro-choice but I am more and more leaning twords the pro-life side everyday. I think that, if it does not pose a health threat, there are enough things to do with the child after its born than just killing it. Adoption, Giving it to friends/family, Ect. If the birth of the child will cause severe health problems to the mother, I think it should be her choice, as with babys that have health problems and will most likley come out still or not live long after birth. |
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Fallout_soldier
Member A-5 Speed Master Joined: 13 September 2003 Location: Azerbaijan Status: Offline Points: 2155 |
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Me neither |
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AdmiralSenn
Platinum Member Joined: 07 July 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2683 |
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Here's my pre-typed response:
When a woman becomes pregnant, she is now already in "mother mode". That means she has as much responsibility for her child as any other mother. How is it her choice to "do what she wants with her body" when her choice will destroy another person's body? I understand the motives behind a rape-induced pregnancy, but I still think abortion is wrong. Barring a natural miscarriage, that collection of cells, once the egg is fertilized, is going to become a baby. As I said, I don't think that it's a woman's choice to do what she wants with "her" body when it destroys someone else's. Unfortunately, I don't have any other ideas for rape victims, other than for them to arm themselves somehow and just be careful. That still won't prevent all rape though, so I don't know. I do think the government should pay for unwanted or rape-conceived children, and I also know that no actress should have to get an abortion. Ever. When was the last time an actress got raped? Barring that, it was HER choice to sleep with whoever, and so it is HER responsibility to bear the child, and the father's responsibility to help her raise it. Edited by AdmiralSenn |
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Is God real? You'll find out when you die.
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tmino1687
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98c green, 2x trig, evo 2, e-bolt,j&j 14in. with a reg and nitro
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fractus.scud
Member well I have no title Joined: 23 February 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 925 |
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well if the woman wants to kill a living HUMAN than let her (sarcasm) abortion only in most rape situations. Im pro-life |
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Ejp414
Platinum Member Joined: 13 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6483 |
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It goes against my personal morals...
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Hades
Moderator Group Joined: 10 May 2003 Location: Virgin Islands Status: Offline Points: 13014 |
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Why is it ultimately the woman's choice?
It takes two to make a baby. It should be both parent's choice. Edited by Hades |
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