Abortion? |
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Da Best
Member Joined: 02 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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Whoa, way outta line...have you no faith? Have you ever touched a bible? Evil and original sin cause the problems in our world. God has perfect justice and mercy, beyond our comprehension, and will give judgment at the end of our lives. He allows evil because it is our duty to fight it and choose righteousness. If that is your belief,that "God himself hurts little children," God help you. And on abortion, how is the baby part of her body? He/she has a unique set of DNA from the instant the "two cells" (you get the idea )join. And why is the child's blood type often different than the mothers? It is a different life, at its most vulnerable stage of development with no voice of its own. And for those who say that abortion should be allowed for instances such as rape, where has the value of life gone? That is tantamount to implying that life is good only when its convenient. The life of an innocent child is always important, no matter what the extenuating circumstances. The child can always be put up for adoption. The only instance in which abortion may be justified is when the lives of both the mother and child are in danger and all possible methods to save both lives have been exhausted (i.e. uterine cancer). However rare this is, it does occur. A few last notes - 1.) the difference in complexity of humans versus viruses is unbelievably vast. 2.) For anyone who wants to know, all nerve parts necessary for the child to experience pain are present at 12 weeks into the pregnancy, so the child does often feel pain during an abortion. Edited by Da Best |
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Pmoney
Member Joined: 22 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Well, if you were disturbed by that picture - GOOD. The intended purpose was accomplished. That is how freakin' ugly abortion is and if you can't handle it become pro-life. Notice how you could still see recognizable features of a human person? Yes it was a child, and then it was brutally murdered. And yes, I consider abortion murder. "Cleverly worded," intended, preconceived, hidden by the media MURDER. Murder is defined as "the unlawful killing of one human being by another, especially when it is intentional." I rest my case on that one. And yes, for once, I am in total agreement with Da Best... "Cult Christ idiots" Christians are far from kool-aid drinking suicidal cult idiots. And that is some serious stereo-typing, assuming that because he is pro-life, he is against video games. I am pro-life and do enjoy violent video games. |
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DBibeau855
Platinum Member IIIIIMMMMM BAAACCCKKK Joined: 26 November 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11662 |
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The bible says God is doing the killing. The bible says God is infalible. Therefor, the killing was justified in the bible. Your comment is ignorant, and it offends me. Edited by DBibeau855 |
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Hades
Moderator Group Joined: 10 May 2003 Location: Virgin Islands Status: Offline Points: 13014 |
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Why is my question out of line? Yes, I have no faith. I have touched several bibles. I even devoted nearly 20 years to religion only to find I had wasted my time. If my posts offend, so be it. Now you see the other side of the coin.
Edited by Hades |
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DBibeau855
Platinum Member IIIIIMMMMM BAAACCCKKK Joined: 26 November 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11662 |
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If you have no faith, why bring up god?
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Hades
Moderator Group Joined: 10 May 2003 Location: Virgin Islands Status: Offline Points: 13014 |
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It was in response to those that did.
I am not atheist, but agnostic. |
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Mehs
Moderator Group An Hero Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 3907 |
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Hades, how old are you exactly?
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[IMG]http://i27.tinypic.com/1538fbc.jpg">
Squeeze Box ☣ |
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Hades
Moderator Group Joined: 10 May 2003 Location: Virgin Islands Status: Offline Points: 13014 |
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A few moments younger than Jesus.
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DBibeau855
Platinum Member IIIIIMMMMM BAAACCCKKK Joined: 26 November 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11662 |
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K, now i understand. Im of the same school of thought. In that, i pretty much despise these religious talking heads that preach and preach and preach but dont practice what they say. A christian forcing his religion on another is a great example. Someone saying "Love thy neighbor" Then saying "You need to convert and be saved" This is not an example of a true christian |
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Clark Kent
Platinum Member Joined: 02 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8716 |
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... and so forth. Not to completely derail the thread, but... ... this is such a copout. When something good happens, people say it is evidence of God's goodness and justice. When something bad happens, people say that it is due to man's sin, or due to our free will, or simply that "God moves in mysterious ways" (which is the biggest copout of all time). How is it that God gets credit for all the goodness, but gets a pass on all the badness? I want that job.
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Zesty
Platinum Member Guested - 3 Strikes and hes out Joined: 05 October 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6050 |
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^^hahaha, great post.
It's funny because it's so true. I went to a Catholic private school for one year, and the way they brainwash you would make you sick to your stomach. Most of it was the same line of thinking as this. Whenever something good happens, God gets the cradit. Whenever a horrible event happens, people just say it's God testing your faith. And then I read the Old Testament, and God is a mean dude...he will strike you down for even talking about him wrong. But then in the new testament God is all nice and forgiving and such. Seems like all the bases are covered. |
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Dune
Platinum Member <placeholder> Joined: 05 February 2004 Status: Offline Points: 4347 |
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Without even reading the entire thing I know I'm with Hades and Clark on this, and Enos too, good to see him back. I'm for abortion definitely, and using religion as excuses for anything seem to be a huge copout. |
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Hades
Moderator Group Joined: 10 May 2003 Location: Virgin Islands Status: Offline Points: 13014 |
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Dune, you have read it most of it. This is a thread that was started a while back, it was bumped a few days ago and just grew a few pages.
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Dune
Platinum Member <placeholder> Joined: 05 February 2004 Status: Offline Points: 4347 |
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I figured it was just another abortion thread that was put up while I was away in New York. I love your sig though. |
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Pmoney
Member Joined: 22 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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OK, so say I want to go around killing people because they look funny. I look at you, I think you look strange, so I blow your head off. Who would not agree that my killing people for such trivial reasons is wrong? There are certain moral truths bound into our nature, namely the sacredness of life. If we are all just "chemical accidents," why is it so that certain rights and wrongs exist? It is not just because "a lot of people say so." The basic ability of reasoning and distinguishing right from wrong is part of our nature. Look at the complexity of the universe and our world; if our planet were a few hundred thousand miles either closer or further from the sun, the climate would make the planet virtually uninhabitable. The right equilibrium of gases exist in the atmosphere, allowing for respiration and photosynthesis. It seems difficult to believe that such an intricate balance which supports life occurred by accident, and that life, as complex as ourselves, formed from lifeless matter and "evolved" to create human life, none the less with properties of reasoning, self-awareness, and free will. What creator would enable us with the ability to show such love and compassion and then play a cruel game of fate with his creations killing some for fun and manipulating others for amusement? It takes a mind, willing to reject all reasoning logic, to whole-heartedly embrace such a theory. To me, it seems clear that some all powerful guiding force is behind the creation and maintenance of the universe. We have free will, but it is our duty to choose right, and not, as in the above example, blow people's heads off. What then, is the difference between you and a developing human in the womb? Nothing but the stage of life. He/she has unique DNA, signature brain waves, functioning organ systems, ect...just as everyone else living outside the womb. Of course, it requires time to fully develop all aspects of an adult human and humans change throughout the life cycle - who looks like the 80 year old geezer they will become at age five? Religion is only a copout for those who know little about their beliefs. Much of it is grounded in sound reasoning. |
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Frozen
Gold Member Joined: 18 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1002 |
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Wow, you're arguement hurts my head with it's lack of reasoning and insight. First things first. The red text. He wasn't offended or disturbed by anything except the tool waving around a sign on some street. He was making fun of him. Get it? Now for the green portion, specifically bold. If you want to talk law, learn something about it first. Ironically enough, you say abortion is murder, since it is the intentional, unlawful killing of anohter human. However, abortion is legal, so it cannot be murder. The last portion of your post is just silly, so I'll avoid touching on that. |
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Clark Kent
Platinum Member Joined: 02 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8716 |
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EDIT - to pmoney Nope. So-called "intelligent design" theories are grounded in a fundamentally flawed application of scientific theory. And even if we accept ID, that does still not lead to a necessary morality. Natural law and all of its relatives are unsupportable and meaningless, not to mention contrary to human history. Religious law has some logic, but is subject to severe epistemological flaws.
Edited by Clark Kent |
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Pmoney
Member Joined: 22 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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If the sign prompted his yelling, it did disturb him in some way. He essentially retaliated to an offense. The man holding the sign made no direct action to Enos, yet he started yelling at him because it caused him to think about the situation and react because the ideas presented by the picture disturbed him. If the poster did disturb him, he would have taken no action. "Unlawful" does not only mean by the laws of our country. The legality of such things can transcend the flaws of humanity's creations of government.
1.) I am talking beyond the scientific method. Not all things can be explained in a methodical fashion, but they still happen. Use logic. What are the odds that life would evolve from lifeless amino acids in an organic soup to form complex humans? Starting with the simplest single-cell organisms, the chances that beneficial mutations would occur, nonetheless thousands upon thousands of beneficial mutations, is slim to none. Then, for propagation of that mutated species, two organisms of the mutated type would have to exist to reproduce, unless asexual reproduction occurred, in which case, how did gender differences develop? EDIT: What exact flaws in the application of the scientific theory are you talking about anyway? That brief statement merits an explanation. 2.) Accepting intelligent design implies the existence of a very wise and powerful being. This then brings in the morality aspect, because it does exist, and it then falls under the assumption that our design was facilitated by that wise and powerful being who must have incorporated that characteristic into our design. Edited by Pmoney |
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Frozen
Gold Member Joined: 18 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1002 |
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Maybe you aren't understanding. Enos was yelling at him not because it was offensive, or disturbing, but more because of the sheer absurdity of sitting on a street corner with a baby sign. Oh, and there is this thing called seperation of church and state. Ever heard of it? May I point out that some people ddo not adhere to your version of a supernatural being. |
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Pmoney
Member Joined: 22 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Absurdity? He was showing the truth - and that's absurd!? Many people in this country still don't understand what abortion is really like, and a picture of a mutilated baby is the harsh reality of abortion. There was a disturbance in Enos' thoughts that prompted his actions. If he were indifferent, or in agreement, he would have not been disturbed and would have taken no action. I am not forcing anyone to conform to my beliefs, and I am not saying that the government does either. My main point is that there are undeniable traits of fairness, justice, compassion, ect... in human nature. Whether you believe that it is a result of random chemical interactions or a supreme being, it is a reality of the human character and thus a consideration for all people, including the officials in the government. |
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