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patdh1028 View Drop Down
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Points: 27 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: paintball sniper
    Posted: 30 April 2005 at 2:12pm

alright dont write this off, im sure its possible...

what you need is a closed bolt mechanism, best to be manually operated so that the air pressure in the barrel is not lost until the ball is out of the barrel. the balls would have to be modified. i have this idea: you glue a small cylindrical piece of styrofoam or some other lightweight material to the back of the ball to give it in-flight stability. for a barrel im thinkin 30-40 in rifled. rifling would work because the gas pressure whould smush the styrofoam into the grooves, and lastly the valve would have to release a lower air pressure for a longer time so that it could have a longer range and still be near 300 fps. also, if the valve released a lot of air all at once, the ball would start to slow down by the time it was half way through the barrel, reducing range drastically. if this would work imagine playing woodsball games where yuo could actually shoot people accurately. that would be awesome. any other ideas/comments?
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Points: 10463 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2005 at 2:46pm

Firstly, before a flame fest starts, there technically is no such thing a a paintball "sniper". Next, a 30-40" barrel is ridiculous. You would use alot of air to push the ball out of the barrel, despite being "manually operated". I dont really see how modifying paintballs will help anything, but whatever.

I give it an A for effort.
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Points: 9178 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2005 at 4:31pm
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Points: 27 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2005 at 7:41pm
guys, what i just stated is entirely possible and would most likely result in the desired performance. your ignorant and utterly stupid comments show your elementary knowledge of ballistics. firstly, this thing would not need to be air efficient, because you wouldnt have to make that many shots per game, thus enough air could be used to propel a ball through a 30-40" barrel. Secondly, modifying paintballs from a sphere to a cylinder results in in-flight stability. they learned that during the civil war you moron, why do you think bullets today are cylinders with either cones or half-spheres on the end? darur, you didnt even try to logically combat the idea, because of course the word "sniper" in paintball is a noob word. with normal guns it is, but with the specific enhancement allowed in the "sniper" i described, there certainly could be people literally sniping (by sniping i mean shooting accurately from a distance). this design would also make scopes something that could actually be used in paintball, instead of made fun of. what do i have to do to make you understand? this gun is not a tippmann with a 30-40" barrel. this is a paintball marker specifically designed to have better range and accuracy than anything currently on the market. just because i have like 9 posts on this forum and you have 1867 or 5176 does not mean that everything that you say has infinite merit and anything i say is noob language. why dont you guys read a book on how guns work and then come back and maybe you could have some legitimate issues with this idea, because as it stands, you have just been thouroghly pwned.
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Points: 9178 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2005 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by patdh1028 patdh1028 wrote:

guys, what i just stated is entirely possible and would most likely result in the desired performance. your ignorant and utterly stupid comments show your elementary knowledge of ballistics.

Nope, you my friend have something to learn about ballistics


 firstly, this thing would not need to be air efficient, because you wouldnt have to make that many shots per game, thus enough air could be used to propel a ball through a 30-40" barrel.

Uh, Air effecincey means less money and its niot just a case of money.  And there is no way in hell you are firing a paintball out of a 30-40 inch barrel.  I dont care what you say on that one, aint happening.

Secondly, modifying paintballs from a sphere to a cylinder results in in-flight stability. they learned that during the civil war you moron, why do you think bullets today are cylinders with either cones or half-spheres on the end?

I challenge you to make a simple and cost efficent method of producing paintballs shapped the way you described.  Its been done, but it died out.

 darur, you didnt even try to logically combat the idea

Give me a logical idea and I'll give you a logical response to it . . .

, because of course the word "sniper" in paintball is a noob word. with normal guns it is, but with the specific enhancement allowed in the "sniper" i described, there certainly could be people literally sniping (by sniping i mean shooting accurately from a distance).

No, just no.  Lets look at the points
  • Rifleing - Been done, in fact I bought a rifled barrel as a newb.  Its quiet, yes, but the accuracy is crappy.  Its been tested.  The theory works with solid objects like bullets but with Paintballs you have a liquid core surrounded by a solid shell.  The shell makes contact with the rifleing and spins but the paint does not spin causing in-flight wobbling.
  • 30 in barrel - For crying out loud, you wont get a ball out of that.  Wont work, period.  The amount of friction incurred would make the paintball flop out of the barrel if it even reached the end.  Past 14 inches there is NO added accuracy for a paintball.  And dont you dare pull the whole "Well, if thats true why do snipers have long barrels" argument because I will have release Belt on you, and you dont want that, aint nobody want Belt released on them . . .
  • Slow release of gas - No.  A similar proposal was made with progressive release guns, it wont work.  The paintball will keep speeding up faster and faster and will far out pass 300 FPS.
  • Light weight crap for stability -  And how do you intend to carry or load those or even care for them?  When the paint gets older and soggier it will make depressions and do crap for the ball.  Not to mention the fact that there is no way you are going to make that work in a barrel.
  • Closed Bolt - Purr-lease, thats what autocockers are, dont seem that much accurate do they?


this design would also make scopes something that could actually be used in paintball, instead of made fun of. what do i have to do to make you understand? this gun is not a tippmann with a 30-40" barrel. this is a paintball marker specifically designed to have better range and accuracy than anything currently on the market.

If thats true then why has no one made on yet?

 just because i have like 9 posts on this forum and you have 1867 or 5176 does not mean that everything that you say has infinite merit and anything i say is noob language.

No one judges by post count, they judge by quality of posts, and reading your posts, it would be better if they went by post count for you . . .

why dont you guys read a book on how guns work and then come back and maybe you could have some legitimate issues with this idea,


Your talking to one of the biggest gun enthusiest on the forum, I've read too many books on guns.

because as it stands, you have just been thouroghly pwned.

Ehhh . . . No



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Points: 27 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2005 at 8:39pm
do i have to explain this again? you obviously have no idea how rifling works because the impact of the air on the styrofoam would mold the sides to the rifling, just like in a real gun. at that point, the mass spinning on the end of the ball would make the paint inside irrelevant, or at best act as a gyroscope (new idea) giving the particle extreme stabilization. rifling doesnt work for normal paintballs because the very principle behind it (bullet expansion) is lost. secondly, put a paintball in a 30" tube of the right bore size and blow through it. the paintball comes out. wow, a tank running at 850 psi couldnt push a paintball out of a barrel when you could do it with your lungs? must be one diesel dude. ever heard of a blow gun? how do they work? the length of a blow gun is as long as 48" ive seen, how do they work? how do i intend to make or care for the paint? hell i dont know! its an idea. the model i mentioned involved gluing styrofoam cylinders on the back of a paintball, albeit crude, but it just might work, plus im just thinking of stuff off the top of my head. i dont have a physics or ballistics textbook out in front of me, so as far as im concerned, this has all been theoretical. to load a ball? simple bolt action style breech load i think, unless you could put a clip in there which would be hard. and closed bolt would be absolutely necessary to maintain the necessary pressure to push the ball out of the barrel at a respectable speed. why has no one made one yet? because of the notoriety of the word "sniper" in paintball, maybe. or maybe because no one thought of a way to do it. or maybe someone thought the whole thing out identcal to my idea and tested it and it didnt work. or maybe its because if you havent noticed only a handful of companies make guns for scenario/woodsball, companies that dont have much money for r & d. i dont know the reason, but i still dont see anything wrong with the design on paper. what i mean by "slow" release of gas is lower pressure, not like 850 psi, more like anywhere from 100-450 psi. the use of the word "slow" was my mistake, and i apologize if you misunderstood. operating psi is one thing that would have to be taken care of by testing. i never said that this would work for sure and hell i could build it and maybe it would be total crap. but many of the ideas i have listed have significant merit. and you may have read many books on guns, but your thinking is still (as far as i can see) strictly in the realm of paintball. why cant the gap be bridged a little? the two subjects are intrinsically related. so therefore this discussion (between you and me) is over.
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Points: 4626 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2005 at 8:45pm
good lord, give it up, darur pwn'd you

its been talked about so many times, and each time its been proved wrong, but if you can make it work, more power to you *cough*

and its hard to believe a "genius" who uses the word "firstly"
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Points: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2005 at 10:04pm
yes he sorta did prove u wrong.. should've siad ur right what was i thinking instead of finding sum lame way to try to prove him wrong when u cant.....
check out Actionmarkers.com, like any of the guns??? pm me if you want discount.
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Points: 27 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2005 at 10:23pm

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

good lord, give it up, darur pwn'd you

its been talked about so many times, and each time its been proved wrong, but if you can make it work, more power to you *cough*

and its hard to believe a "genius" who uses the word "firstly"

firstly is a word: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/firstl y

did anyone say i was a genius?

he cant prove me wrong and i cant prove myself right. in order to do that i would need to build a prototype and test it. all i was doing was presenting some ideas i felt were not already mentioned in previous discussions. i already stated all i was saying was theoretical, because to say it was true would be lying because i never tested it and neither has darur. to say he pwned me is a little harsh because all he did was present some counter-ideas, and thats exactly why i posted this. but to say i was proven wrong is idiotic and shows little in the form of actual thinking.



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Points: 6556 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2005 at 11:18pm

Alright dude, This ball erm...I mean cylinder (which has been done, with little marketability) would have to come out of the barrel at about 300 fps. Rifling help with accuracy, (which Darur completely tore you apart with the wobble), not with distance.

They do however make paintballs with gelaten fins in the back. Again would need a specialized marker, thus noone would buy it.

And it helps to capitalized "I" and the begining of sentences. It also helps to brake the sentences up into smaller paragraphs.

It was a good thought, but you really should have conceted defeat.
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Points: 9178 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2005 at 1:00am
Originally posted by patdh1028 patdh1028 wrote:

do i have to explain this again? you obviously have no idea how rifling works because the impact of the air on the styrofoam would mold the sides to the rifling,

K, if you read my post, the gelitin shell already does this

 just like in a real gun. at that point, the mass spinning on the end of the ball would make the paint inside irrelevant, or at best act as a gyroscope (new idea) giving the particle extreme stabilization.

BS moron.  The paint makes up 99% of the mass of a paintball, its more than relevent.  Use some sense.

 rifling doesnt work for normal paintballs because the very principle behind it (bullet expansion) is lost.

No, its because of the liquid aspect, trust me.  They have filmed it with high speed cameras, the shell spins but the apint doesnt.

secondly, put a paintball in a 30" tube of the right bore size and blow through it. the paintball comes out.

Maybe if you are a world champion bagpiper

wow, a tank running at 850 psi couldnt push a paintball out of a barrel when you could do it with your lungs?

Not with one shot of air

must be one diesel dude. ever heard of a blow gun? how do they work? the length of a blow gun is as long as 48" ive seen, how do they work?

Blowguns usually use a compression chamber . . .

 how do i intend to make or care for the paint? hell i dont know! its an idea.

Brillient . . .

the model i mentioned involved gluing styrofoam cylinders on the back of a paintball,

Right, now you intend to load these how?  And consider the fact that that paintball shell isnt very strong, one bit of friction at the wrong moment and your little ball goes pop.

 albeit crude, but it just might work, plus im just thinking of stuff off the top of my head.

The problem right there

i dont have a physics or ballistics textbook out in front of me, so as far as im concerned, this has all been theoretical.

Theory is worth crap if it doesnt work

 to load a ball? simple bolt action style breech load i think, unless you could put a clip in there which would be hard.

And your telling me you are going to chamber a round without tearing the back crap off?

and closed bolt would be absolutely necessary to maintain the necessary pressure to push the ball out of the barrel at a respectable speed. why has no one made one yet? because of the notoriety of the word "sniper" in paintball, maybe.

The reason the word sniper is considered naive is because it doesnt work

or maybe because no one thought of a way to do it.

And no one has yet

 or maybe someone thought the whole thing out identcal to my idea and tested it and it didnt work. or maybe its because if you havent noticed only a handful of companies make guns for scenario/woodsball, companies that dont have much money for r & d. i dont know the reason, but i still dont see anything wrong with the design on paper. 

Theres the problem again.  None of your idea has been tested or proven.  I shown you the problems with what you have on paper.

what i mean by "slow" release of gas is lower pressure, not like 850 psi, more like anywhere from 100-450 psi.

You completely missed my point there

 the use of the word "slow" was my mistake, and i apologize if you misunderstood. operating psi is one thing that would have to be taken care of by testing. i never said that this would work for sure and hell i could build it and maybe it would be total crap. but many of the ideas i have listed have significant merit. and you may have read many books on guns, but your thinking is still (as far as i can see) strictly in the realm of paintball. why cant the gap be bridged a little? the two subjects are intrinsically related. so therefore this discussion (between you and me) is over.

Nope
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haha, darur wins again

patdh, maybe you can grow up and work for Rap-4

-not you


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Points: 9178 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2005 at 1:03am
Originally posted by patdh1028 patdh1028 wrote:

firstly is a word: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/firstl y

did anyone say i was a genius?

he cant prove me wrong

I kinda have.  In case you missed the lesson in science class, a theory is wrong until proven right.

and i cant prove myself right. in order to do that i would need to build a prototype and test it. all i was doing was presenting some ideas i felt were not already mentioned in previous discussions. i already stated all i was saying was theoretical, because to say it was true would be
lying because i never tested it and neither has darur.

I in fact happen to be citing articles and tests done on almost everything you listed and usuing logic on the rest.

to say he pwned me is a little harsh because all he did was present some counter-ideas,

SOME?  I happen to have attacked every point you made and you have yet to dissprove any of my counter claims

 and thats exactly why i posted this. but to say i was proven wrong is idiotic and shows little in the form of actual thinking.
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OOOOO SNAP

Darur    Future Rap-4 Employee
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DING DING DING ROUND 4

okay mr. Rap-4, give it another shot
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Brilliant Darur.. just brilliant.

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Originally posted by patdh1028 patdh1028 wrote:

alright dont write this off, im sure its possible...

what you need is a closed bolt mechanism, best to be manually operated so that the air pressure in the barrel is not lost until the ball is out of the barrel. the balls would have to be modified. i have this idea: you glue a small cylindrical piece of styrofoam or some other lightweight material to the back of the ball to give it in-flight stability. for a barrel im thinkin 30-40 in rifled. rifling would work because the gas pressure whould smush the styrofoam into the grooves, and lastly the valve would have to release a lower air pressure for a longer time so that it could have a longer range and still be near 300 fps. also, if the valve released a lot of air all at once, the ball would start to slow down by the time it was half way through the barrel, reducing range drastically. if this would work imagine playing woodsball games where yuo could actually shoot people accurately. that would be awesome. any other ideas/comments?

snip•er Audio pronunciation of "sniper" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snpr)
n.

1. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.
2. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

sniper

n : a marksman who shoots at people from a concealed place

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

this right here is enough evidence to know that there are snipers in paintball.  believe what you want though. 

a bolt system for a paintball marker would be awesome and i'd buy one now if there was a product like that. 

theres a lot of crackers in here watch yourself at all times.
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Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

Originally posted by patdh1028 patdh1028 wrote:

guys, what i just stated is entirely possible and would most likely result in the desired performance. your ignorant and utterly stupid comments show your elementary knowledge of ballistics.

Nope, you my friend have something to learn about ballistics


 firstly, this thing would not need to be air efficient, because you wouldnt have to make that many shots per game, thus enough air could be used to propel a ball through a 30-40" barrel.

Uh, Air effecincey means less money and its niot just a case of money.  And there is no way in hell you are firing a paintball out of a 30-40 inch barrel.  I dont care what you say on that one, aint happening.

Secondly, modifying paintballs from a sphere to a cylinder results in in-flight stability. they learned that during the civil war you moron, why do you think bullets today are cylinders with either cones or half-spheres on the end?

I challenge you to make a simple and cost efficent method of producing paintballs shapped the way you described.  Its been done, but it died out.

 darur, you didnt even try to logically combat the idea

Give me a logical idea and I'll give you a logical response to it . . .

, because of course the word "sniper" in paintball is a noob word. with normal guns it is, but with the specific enhancement allowed in the "sniper" i described, there certainly could be people literally sniping (by sniping i mean shooting accurately from a distance).

No, just no.  Lets look at the points
  • Rifleing - Been done, in fact I bought a rifled barrel as a newb.  Its quiet, yes, but the accuracy is crappy.  Its been tested.  The theory works with solid objects like bullets but with Paintballs you have a liquid core surrounded by a solid shell.  The shell makes contact with the rifleing and spins but the paint does not spin causing in-flight wobbling.
  • 30 in barrel - For crying out loud, you wont get a ball out of that.  Wont work, period.  The amount of friction incurred would make the paintball flop out of the barrel if it even reached the end.  Past 14 inches there is NO added accuracy for a paintball.  And dont you dare pull the whole "Well, if thats true why do snipers have long barrels" argument because I will have release Belt on you, and you dont want that, aint nobody want Belt released on them . . .
  • Slow release of gas - No.  A similar proposal was made with progressive release guns, it wont work.  The paintball will keep speeding up faster and faster and will far out pass 300 FPS.
  • Light weight crap for stability -  And how do you intend to carry or load those or even care for them?  When the paint gets older and soggier it will make depressions and do crap for the ball.  Not to mention the fact that there is no way you are going to make that work in a barrel.
  • Closed Bolt - Purr-lease, thats what autocockers are, dont seem that much accurate do they?


this design would also make scopes something that could actually be used in paintball, instead of made fun of. what do i have to do to make you understand? this gun is not a tippmann with a 30-40" barrel. this is a paintball marker specifically designed to have better range and accuracy than anything currently on the market.

If thats true then why has no one made on yet?

 just because i have like 9 posts on this forum and you have 1867 or 5176 does not mean that everything that you say has infinite merit and anything i say is noob language.

No one judges by post count, they judge by quality of posts, and reading your posts, it would be better if they went by post count for you . . .

why dont you guys read a book on how guns work and then come back and maybe you could have some legitimate issues with this idea,


Your talking to one of the biggest gun enthusiest on the forum, I've read too many books on guns.

because as it stands, you have just been thouroghly pwned.

Ehhh . . . No



Kthanksbye


you don't know that.  b/c no ones ever used one before.  i bet somebody out could do it and prove you all wrong.  great woodsball idea!
Because I can.
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Points: 461 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2005 at 8:54am
Originally posted by patdh1028 patdh1028 wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

good lord, give it up, darur pwn'd you

its been talked about so many times, and each time its been proved wrong, but if you can make it work, more power to you *cough*

and its hard to believe a "genius" who uses the word "firstly"

firstly is a word: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/firstl y

did anyone say i was a genius?

he cant prove me wrong and i cant prove myself right. in order to do that i would need to build a prototype and test it. all i was doing was presenting some ideas i felt were not already mentioned in previous discussions. i already stated all i was saying was theoretical, because to say it was true would be lying because i never tested it and neither has darur. to say he pwned me is a little harsh because all he did was present some counter-ideas, and thats exactly why i posted this. but to say i was proven wrong is idiotic and shows little in the form of actual thinking.

right on target

 
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Points: 1775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2005 at 9:19am
He was only putting his idea out there. Even if his idea doesn't work, atleast give him some points for effort..

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