Ban CO2? Upgrade to HPA Now! |
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Bruce A. Frank
Platinum Member KRL Reincarnated? Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3063 |
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Posted: 20 September 2005 at 12:07pm |
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We do a lot of discussing regulators and expansion chambers here on the forum, all intended to get around the problems with CO2. It is fairly universally accepted that expansion chambers are good. Palmer Stabilizers are better, and a combination of both is the best way to get CO2 to behave reasonably well. Even with the Stabilizer the pressure, and thus the velocity, can spike dramatically with CO2. With the Stabilizer it is still possible to get liquid CO2 into the marker's valve. Thus allowing pressure spikes (though not nearly a significantly as without the Stabilizer). And everyone knows the problems with cold weather play and CO2. One field that I am aware of, TAG in Watsonville/Hollister CA, is virtually banning CO2 on their fields. No CO2 powered marker can be used that does not have a regulator. They really do not think that is completely adequate, for the reasons mentioned above. They offer to rent HPA cylinders to use on your marker for only $5 a day (plus another $10 for all-day-air). They have also discontinued filling CO2 at their facility and have converted all of their rental equipment to HPA. Is this the wave of the future? Edited by Bruce A. Frank |
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cv222005
Member Joined: 07 September 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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i think thats kinda wrong, i mean people spend money on their co2 tanks the same as they do for hp, but most of us who cannot afford hp have to suffer now? that also just makes the co2 tanks we have bought usless.
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98C R/T M4 foregrips W/sightpost 3POS-M4 STOCK REMOTE |
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LordJovian
Member Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1882 |
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On the other side, however, people spent good money painting commercial buildings, homes, infrastructure, etc. with lead-based paint. Once this was a health hazrd, it was banned. CO2 can be a potential health hazard. I know a few people who were hit with spiked CO2 at a good distance, and they now have a scar from it. Imagine if the person using the spiked velocity (I believe it chrono'd at 350 fps) ran up to someone, asked him to surrender, and that person refused (that would probably be me). If that person tried to turn around and got shot in the face mask, the face mask wouldn't have held up and they'd be short an eye. Just because you spent money on a CO2 tank doesn't mean anything. I spent money on CO2 tanks, old guns, etc. but that doesn't mean I HAVE to keep using them. Things get old, times change. On the flipside, compressed air tanks can be dangerous too. Carbon fibers can tear, valves can be screwed with by unqualified people, etc. But, of course, the presence of an air tank is a normal safety concern we can't get rid of quite yet. Even the markers are big safety issues. Some risks are worth taking, some aren't. If we have the technology to prevent CO2 use and velocity spikes, why not use it?Steel compressed air tanks is what the usual rental HPA equipment are, and these are much safer than steel CO2 tanks. |
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A-5
E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
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Bruce A. Frank
Platinum Member KRL Reincarnated? Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3063 |
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Well, they haven't forbid the use of CO2 (yet!) just that there must be provision made to reduce the likelihood of spikes by using regulators designed to handle CO2. You can install a Palmer for around $75. You can buy light weight wrapped HPA tank off Ebay for $130-$150. Some of the steel HPA tanks on Ebay go for less than $100. So there are alternatives. I see this as little different than setting standards for goggles so that shop goggles and ski goggles were no longer acceptable. |
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^Pirate^
Gold Member Joined: 12 June 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1891 |
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72/3k used is like $60-$80, not as cheap as non-reg CO2. I agree with the second part of that statement as well. |
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It aint about black or white becuz we human I hope we see the light before it's ruined My ghetto gospel |
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whack-a-mole
Platinum Member Member of the "I Have No Life Club" Joined: 19 August 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2872 |
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I think that's ridiculous. People have been using CO2 forever. I don't think it's fair to only accept one type of air, especially if both types have a downside that basically equal out. For me and lots of other people, CO2 is cheaper and easier to come by. Alot of the velocity problems and other problems associated with CO2 is either operator error or can be fixed with simple upgrades. Me personally, I've never had a problem with CO2 nor out of about the 40 people that I play with and their various markers have they had a problem.
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NASA and the Americans spent millions of dollars and hundreds of hours to develop a pen that would write in space.....The Russians used a pencil.
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Sargent Duck
Member Joined: 26 July 2004 Status: Offline Points: 843 |
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I've been using CO2 for a couple of years now, but never really liked
it. Lot's of disadvantages, and no advantages when compared to air. I
currently have an anti-siphon and a Palmers to help me get rid of some
of those advantages. Then I picked up a used HPA tank. Now I'll never
look back to CO2.
I don't think it should be banned. Banning is for something that's unsafe, and CO2 isn't really that dangerous (if looked after properly). However, I think your field is on the right track, STRONGLY encouraging the use of HPA. And really, $15/day isn't that much. |
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Ref: I want a nice clean game
player: but it's paintball! |
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tigman250
Member Joined: 27 April 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 923 |
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add on a $10 playing fee and $50 for a case of paint then $10 for gun rental (if needed) and you have spent the better part of a hundred bucks!!! seems like too much for 1 day of fun now dosen't it? |
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Roll Tide
Platinum Member NEVER had a STRIKE! Joined: 18 September 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2652 |
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$15 or a nasty bleeding welt on your neck that is extremely painful because CO2 can spike so badly? Edited by Roll Tide |
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Mehs
Moderator Group An Hero Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 3907 |
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One of the fields I play at bought a lot of 47/3000 Crossfire tanks, and they don't even bother using co2 anymore.
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Ken Majors
Gold Member Tree? What tree? OW!!!! Dangit!!!! Joined: 02 March 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2224 |
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So they are banning the use of the .68 Special?
Sad...it is a true classic. The corvair was "unsafe at any speed", yet they did not ban them from the roads. A few whiners get welts, so they ban C02. I think they should ban bullets so people can't shoot themselves. |
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RLTW
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cdacda13
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Lenses are tested to an extreme FPS standard. The highest estimate I heard was about 450-500 FPS. I have been saying it since I bought my first HPA tank, CO2 sucks. |
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Roll Tide
Platinum Member NEVER had a STRIKE! Joined: 18 September 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2652 |
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I've even read where they will shoot solid rubber balls at the mask at like 350 fps, maybe higher. I'm not sure which company does that... I'll be looking for it. |
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TruePaintballer
Platinum Member Strike 1 - Spam 11-19 Joined: 03 July 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4083 |
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i believe its a good move...that no marker should be sold with CO2...it is very smart safety and performance wise
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KrimsonKamikaze
Member Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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$15 and/or a nasty bleeding welt on your neck that is extremely painful because you were a retard and got shot from 3 feet away at 290 fps... |
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FyreFly
Gold Member Joined: 15 November 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
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Actually, that's pretty cheap. At my home field, its $20 to play, and $100 per case of paint. So that's $120 to play, not including rental or fills. I think banning CO2 may be a bit extreme, but HPA is definately the future of paintball anyway. They are just speeding up the inevitable. Edited by FyreFly |
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System X NME LE WGP Orracle Cocker Tippmann A-5 E-Grip & LPK Tippmann 98C Flatline & LPK |
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Bruce A. Frank
Platinum Member KRL Reincarnated? Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3063 |
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A little point of fact here. A paintball hitting exposed flesh at less than 300 fps may leave a shell cut but will not turn the spot into hamburger. From what I have read paintballs striking unprotected skin at 335+ fps will do serious damage to deep layers of skin and inject paint into the skin and tissues just below the skin. This may lead to infection. Even when no complications develop such wounds may take 6 to 8 weeks to heal. While using CO2 I did a series of tests holding the marker in positions that caused liquid CO2 to enter the power valve. (no expansion chamber and no Palmer yet) When the marker was held so only gas could enter the marker velocity was chrono'ed at 268-275 fps. Once the marker was pointed down and fired twice it was then placed on the chrono. First shot was 347 fps. Next shot was 355 fps. Velocity did not return to the original readings until the 5th shot. Again, the move yet is not to ban, but to make sure those using CO2 are using the accessories needed to provide more uniform velocities. |
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Sargent Duck
Member Joined: 26 July 2004 Status: Offline Points: 843 |
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Besides, in the long run, air is cheaper. I've yet to see (or hear) of
any field that offers all day CO2 filling for $5 or $10. Using air,
you'll cover the cost of your tank in no time.
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Ref: I want a nice clean game
player: but it's paintball! |
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Bruce A. Frank
Platinum Member KRL Reincarnated? Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3063 |
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That could be debated also. I have my own CO2 fill station. It cost me $1.25 to fill a 20 oz bottle. The total cost of the fill station was around $100 including the cylinder. Three 20 oz bottles in my gear bag carried me through a full day of play. The set up to fill my HPA is $300. And it takes 5 to 7 fills to play the full day. My field will not allow me to fill my tank in the back of my car in the parking lot. I certainly could not afford to own 5 to 7 HPA cylinders to stash in my gear bag. All day air at my field is $10 a day whether HPA or CO2. But I never used all-day-air service when using CO2. Now I have no choice or alternative with with HPA. Edited by Bruce A. Frank |
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Blaze SA
Member Joined: 21 September 2005 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Guys for the price of putting X-chambers & regs etc on a few of
your markers just get one HPA tank ! No one that has HPA regrets it. +
co2 kills your markers & cant be used on higher end markers. Moral
of the story ... Co2 sucks the quicker you get off it the better.
Just see the light ! |
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My cocker is the best looking around... my gun too !
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