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Abortion/ Goverment power debate.

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Hades View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 1:26pm
No, it isnt the key to happiness, it is an esstentional key to survival.

Try living off handing out bibles and see how meals that will buy you.

Just remember George Bush doesnt care about black people.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hoytshooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 1:47pm

I its becuase black ppl dont care about george bush lol. But if theres a will theres a way. My parents had my oldest sister when he was 19 and she was 18. He worked at dairy king. She didnt work. He took out loans and became a desiel machanic. Still didnt make much money but was barely gettin by. Then they had my middle sister, tough times, they got through it. you cant just throw away a life. A life is a wonderful thing. You cant just get rid of it becuase you think its a burden to you.

I shoot a Hoyt

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 1:54pm
Yeah because all the Dairy Queens and mechanic shops in the ghetto hire 14 year old girls. Just think of how hard it would be if your father wasnt there giving you mom and sister his paycheck to live on. How many boys that impregnate teenage or younger girls stick around to help support the baby?

Regardless the proposition that is being discussed in this thread has nothing to do with your parents example since both your parents werent minors when they had your oldest sister.

Tell some 9, 10, 11, 12 year old girl she has to have a kid and raise it. That child is that is pregant is still a child herself, and you expect her to be a mother.

Good thinking there...

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aGUYnamedLARRY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aGUYnamedLARRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:00pm
When a girl is that young and she gets pregnant,  she still has her PARENTS paycheck to live off of.  


In a world where everyone has gone mad, only the lunatic is truly sane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panda Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:01pm
^ thats not the point...  She doesn't need to be taken care of all her life.

Also, you know how much it takes to raise a Child?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:02pm

Originally posted by aGUYnamedLARRY aGUYnamedLARRY wrote:

When a girl is that young and she gets pregnant,  she still has her PARENTS paycheck to live off of.  


And if her parents dont get paychecks? If her parents are not ever around? If her parents are abusive? If her parents live paycheck to paycheck, and just make enough to support themselves?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:04pm
It isnt the Grandparents responsiblity to raise and financially pay for the newborn. It is the childs.

And I alreadly said most of these girls parents dont have incomes or wont support another child.

Yeah, what the two posts above me said.

Once again, people who have no idea what it takes to raise/support another human being seem to think they can tell people who are in this situation what to do.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aGUYnamedLARRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by aGUYnamedLARRY aGUYnamedLARRY wrote:

She hasn't had sex for many reasons
and one of them is because she could not provide for this child as of yet.


Sucks if you are getting raped by your daddy, though.

Yes it does,  it's still killing the kid.   


Good lord!  Where do you live?!

A place with good people.


Oh.  Every sperm is sacred, right.

Heh heh heh that's funny,  never thought of it that way.

Either these families are all obscenely wealthy, or by "good education" you mean "public H.S. followed by community college".  Normal folk can barely afford to put one or two kids through college, let alone a zillion.  College is expensive.

We're all homeschooled,  My oldest brother went to a college in spain somewhere.
Our kids pay for their own college,  they don't mooch off their parents,  that's a losers way out of it.


How do you feel about dropping bombs in a populated area?

I think it's sick.

How about "I choose to have an abortion because childbirth is a major trauma on the body, which can have serious permanent debilitating effect, or might even kill me"  or "I choose to have an abortion because I will lose my job (or get kicked out of school) if I don't"?

Selfish.  Very very selfish.  Peopl have kids all the time and it's one in thousands that have birth problems.
Lose your job?  In the army they sacrifice their lives 24/7  for the people back at home.  They'll lose EVERYTHING just so a bunch of people like you can stay here and not be ruled by china. 
Losing your job is NOTHING,  I'd cut off my own nads before aborting a kid.

And you don't see the inconsistency between those two sentences?

?



jerk...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aGUYnamedLARRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by aGUYnamedLARRY aGUYnamedLARRY wrote:

When a girl is that young and she gets pregnant,  she still has her PARENTS paycheck to live off of.  


And if her parents dont get paychecks? If her parents are not ever around? If her parents are abusive? If her parents live paycheck to paycheck, and just make enough to support themselves?



Ok fine,  let's see it that way.  Let the child live and hand it off to some old nunnery where they'll take care of the kid for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aGUYnamedLARRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Panda Man Panda Man wrote:

^ thats not the point...  She doesn't need to be taken care of all her life.

Also, you know how much it takes to raise a Child?


Yes I know it's alot,  but to take it's life so you can live fat and happy is just dandy now isn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:12pm
Yeah because all the nunneries are not already over stocked with non aborted children as it already is.

And Id rather the child be raised in a very crappy enviroment than have it be wasted in a nunnery. At least the ghetto baby has a better chance at life then the nunnery baby.

Disclaimer: I am sure there is nothing terribly wrong with most nunneries.

But the point is the children given up for adoption are just as bad off as their parents where. They go through life feeling unwanted, have cravings for love and affection, subtitute sex for love, and the cycle repeats itself.

Another Disclaimer: I know not all kids that go through a nunnery wiil repeat the cycle but this thread isnt about those kids. This thread is about the people stuck in the cycle.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by aGUYnamedLARRY aGUYnamedLARRY wrote:


Yes I know it's alot, but to take it's life so you can live fat and happy is just dandy now isn't it?


You have no idea what your talking about.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:14pm

I think you are missing the point here.

NOBODY (Ok, maybe a few wierd ones) supports abortion. If they think they can handle child birth, more power too them. If they can live off of their parents and deal with it, ok.

BUT, Just becuase they want too, that should not dictate that all others who DONT want to, who dont think they can handle it, should not have the option to do it.

 

None of us are pro-abortion, we are pro-CHOICE....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aGUYnamedLARRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:15pm
Nobody knows the right meaning of sex. 
Sex  is supposed to be commiting your life to your spouse and to your child.    When you have sex it's supposed to be saying that you're going to take responsibility  for your child.

Ok now for rape :  it's not your fault,  but it's not the childs fault that he/she's there either.  All the same it's still a child,  it still has every right that you or I do.  If you have the right to kill that child,  whether  it be there by rape  or because you just like sex,  then I or anybody else with a little common sense and morals should be allowed to destroy the world so this madness will end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aGUYnamedLARRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

I think you are missing the point here.

NOBODY (Ok, maybe a few wierd ones) supports abortion. If they think they can handle child birth, more power too them. If they can live off of their parents and deal with it, ok.

BUT, Just becuase they want too, that should not dictate that all others who DONT want to, who dont think they can handle it, should not have the option to do it.

 

None of us are pro-abortion, we are pro-CHOICE....



"pro-choice"? 
Now you're trying to take the blame off your shoulders.


I choose to kill my liberal pro choice neighbor.
I choose to go driving as fast as I want.
I choose to join those crazy middle easterns and slaughter americans by the thousand. 
I choose to blow up the power plants cause I don't like the lights to be on at night. 
I choose to rule the world  cause it'd be fun.
I choose to poison the water pipes.
I choose to do whatever the hell I please because I am pro choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkSIDEofMOON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:21pm

Originally posted by aGUYnamedLARRY aGUYnamedLARRY wrote:

Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Why doesnt this "girlfriend" of yours come tell this retard herself?

And why should I care what she thinks? She hasnt had sex either so to me, her opinion doesnt count.


She hasn't had sex for many reasons
and one of them is because she could not provide for this child as of yet.
She WANTS a family of 12 when she gets married.
Abortion is just plain selfish and I know  at least 25 GIRLS that think so too.   I am the third oldest of 9 kids,  my neighbors the O'Riellys have 12,  my OTHER neighbors the buyers have 8,  my OTHER neithbors the deerdurrfs have 9, the Mcmahons have 9, the Delaneys have 8,  my OTHER neighbors have 15, my OTHER neighbors have 9.  This girl who recently graduated from the nearby  college was the youngest of 20,  the Mcshurleys have 9 also.
I live in a catholic community and those are only the people I know,  there's lots more where they came from.
ALL of these people know that abortion is wrong,  ALL of these huge familys are getting a good education,  all of these kids have the RIGHT attention from their parents and the soccer team they put together last year went undefeated.    They all KNOW abortion is sick.
How come  you "pro choice"  people think it's ok to ruthlessly murder innocent children and DON'T tell me it's because they're not people.
If there is ANY BOUBT that they are human they should not be killed.
If you think  "I choose to kill this kid cause it'll make my life easier"  then how about I "choose" to shove your perverted penis into a meat grinder cause that'll prevent any unwanted pregnancys.
I could "choose"   to  randomly kill people on the street but I don't cause it's WROOOONG.
Seriously,  it's immature to have sex if you're just going to kill the kid.
Even under rape there is no negotiation whatsoever,  this kid still has the right to live whether you like it or not.


The reason she doesn't come tell these "retards"  herself is because she's not really into paintballing so it's not like she's gonna join a forum either.

 

now you are looking from a catholic point of view.  you must not understand that everyone is NOT catholic.  we don't hold the same view points, and yes they are view points, as yourself. 

you have stated that abortion is wrong.  why?  because it kills a fetus, inflicts pain and is "sick".  but the main fact is that you know little of the birthing process it self.  the point at which the fetus is aborted is when it is still in a developmental period.  during this time the embryo/fetus is actually just a bunch of cells dividing and differentiation of cellure types.  now many studies have been conducted on these various stages of the "pain" you said is inflicted onto the embryo/fetus.  the research points out that there is little or any pain at all.  why?  because nothing has fully formed anywhere.

killing it is a 50/50 chance.  why?  because most pregnacies end in spontaneous abortion, naturally if that makes it better to understand.  most don't even know because they just bleed it out thinking it is their period. 

the "sick" part is only from your opinion.  medical terms use nothing of the word sick.  it is only because you have little information of the actual fact that you call it sick.  kinda like thinking all people who read the bible are catholic (jewish, muslim etc.). 

now your girlfriend says that "a girl says it is sick, wrong, etc."  good for here.  she has a standpoint, either hers or her parents, depending on how old she is and actual information she has.  then you stated that you know 20 girls who think the same way.  again either their opinions or just the stuff they repeat from their parents.  now i know 20 women who say just the opposite of them.  whats the point?  that there are just as many saying "no" as there are saying "yes".

now lastly i wanted to confront you on is this.  you state that it is morally wrong and that who do have abortions have no morals at all.  well just to let you know, they do have morals.  they may even have stronger morals than yourself.  just because they choose this over having a child does not make them morally wrong.  why would it?  there are things that your religion has done that is 10000000000 times unmoral that you probably don't talk too much about.  does that make the catholic faith as a whole, morally wrong?  no.  so again, stating that someone is morally wrong is attacking one.  if you were to say that directly to me, i would put you in your place in an instance. 

you really need to look at both sides.  understand both sides.  because this is more complicated than stating what a religion has told you to say.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:21pm


Originally posted by larry larry wrote:

Ok now for rape :  it's not your fault,  but it's not the childs fault that he/she's there either.  All the same it's still a child,  it still has every right that you or I do. 

I can understand this reasoning.  However, if this is all about the child, when why are you so busy with this type of thing:

Originally posted by aGUYnamedLARRY aGUYnamedLARRY wrote:

Nobody knows the right meaning of sex. 
Sex  is supposed to be commiting your life to your spouse and to your child.    When you have sex it's supposed to be saying that you're going to take responsibility  for your child.

If it's all about the baby, why the fire and brimstone "meaning of sex" diversion?  All that does is tell me that you are not entirely sincere about the concern for the baby, and that perhaps your self-righteousness has more to do with personal views of sexuality.

You would be better off sticking with one or the other.  Combining them smells of hypocrisy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aGUYnamedLARRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Yeah because all the nunneries are not already over stocked with non aborted children as it already is.

And Id rather the child be raised in a very crappy enviroment than have it be wasted in a nunnery. At least the ghetto baby has a better chance at life then the nunnery baby.

Disclaimer: I am sure there is nothing terribly wrong with most nunneries.

But the point is the children given up for adoption are just as bad off as their parents where. They go through life feeling unwanted, have cravings for love and affection, subtitute sex for love, and the cycle repeats itself.

Another Disclaimer: I know not all kids that go through a nunnery wiil repeat the cycle but this thread isnt about those kids. This thread is about the people stuck in the cycle.


A ghetto kid?
They're gonna grow up an uneducated bum and beg for money and get thrown in jail  for all that pot he's got.

Nunnerys teach STRONGLEY against sex.
Old nunnerys little kids will turn out alot less likely to have sex before marriage then any other place in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:24pm

My turn to break it down, Clark.

Originally posted by aGUYnamedLARRY aGUYnamedLARRY wrote:

Nobody knows the right meaning of sex.

Translation, "People have different ideals than I do"


Quote Sex  is supposed to be commiting your life to your spouse and to your child.
   

No, Sex is the act of a man putting a penis in a womans vagina. Sorry if that is graphic, but that is SEX. The other things are human emotional attachments.

 

Quote When you have sex it's supposed to be saying that you're going to take responsibility  for your child.

So if the man put on a condom, and the woman is on the pill, is he/she is murdering? Is sex ONLY for conception?

Quote Ok now for rape :  it's not your fault,  but it's not the childs fault that he/she's there either.  All the same it's still a child,  it still has every right that you or I do. 

Ball of cells =/= Child

 

Quote If you have the right to kill that child,  whether  it be there by rape  or because you just like sex,  then I or anybody else with a little common sense and morals should be allowed to destroy the world so this madness will end.

So you would justify killing live, already living humans for Zygotes? People do think that, the people who bomb abortion clinics and murder Planned Parenthood workers. Too bad in the eyes of the law, THEY are the murders, not the clinic workers...



Edited by Tae Kwon Do

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2005 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by aGUYnamedLARRY aGUYnamedLARRY wrote:

Nobody knows the right meaning of sex. Sex is supposed to be commiting your life to your spouse and to your child.    When you have sex it's supposed to be saying that you're going to take responsibility for your child.
The correct meaning of sex is whatever each individual chooses that definitions to be. Sex is not commiting your life to your spouse and child. That may be your own personal definition, but most non Catholic believers will dissagree with that definiton. At this stage in my life I sure as heck dont want my sexual escapades to lead to having a child born. Maybe later in life I might change my mind but for now your definition of sex is nothing like mine. Not to say either one of us is wrong, we just cant go forcing our definitons onto other people and expect them to agree or adhear to the definintions.

I think birth control throws a huge wrench in your responsiblity for the child theory.

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