SHOW US YOUR SENARIO GUNS/GEAR PICS

i made a thompson handguard for the stock barrel. i didnt want to do it with any other barrel because i might mess it up. i wouldnt care if i messed up the stock barrel. it ended up pretty good with the rest of the gun. i'll try to get pics up of it. (i'm 15 so dont laugh if you guys think its funny but i think its pretty good.)

is anyone actually even reading those huge like BOOKS, that u guys call replys. i like that pump, not top into them but that one is pretty cool.

ok... in that scenario... i see you setting up an ambush and being a defensive player more than a sniper but that's just me.  like i said before any woodsballer with half a brain will try to remain hidden. 

i apologize to what i helped do to this thread, but i believe that my questions/answers have been fairly short and to the point.

basically... we seem to be calling the same tactics different things....  i'm done for now... and now... here's a picture of my other gun...  playing w/ this at a big game is fun.  holding off a flank of 6 people w/ 25 rounds is even more fun.

Man you really take all of this to heart don't you.
"2. Were the Targets high-value? IE: Enemy Officers, Radiomen, Crew-Served Weapons Crews?"
What kind of paintball have you been playing? Quick lets take out the enemy officers

My point exactly. In a real scenerio game(obiviously somthing that you have never played) There are Enemy officers, and High-Value Targets(depends on what charactor your playing). But my point is that A Sniper does not shoot indescriminatly, he shoots at high-value targets. High-value targets are hard to come by in paintball.

"1. Eliminate the Targets From beyond the Effective range of return fire?"
Like you said all paintball guns fire the same distance, but I did take out all the guys who did not see me

BAM! Second Point Failed.

"3. Did you take all three shots without being seen by anyone else or postively identified by any other enemies?"
Actually it was more like 10 shots without being positivly identified.

The average Shot to Kill Ratio of a Sniper is 1.3 Rounds Fired to 1 Kill. Your Shot to kill ratio is 3.3 shots per kill. About triple that of a Sniper.

This argument for you and your little minions is not really about convincing me that I am wrong, it is about you guys convincing everyone else that comes on the forum that I am wrong. So I really don't need to "win this argument". You are right, you lost before it even started. Unless you can change physics, or create a marker that can shoot at least 200 feet accuratly. I just need to continue putting out info that new players can see, so that everytime they try to develop a sniper style gun or a sniper style of play that they don't get squashed down by a few finatical speed ball, players on a Tippmann forum that they obvously have no place on. You go ahead and do that. Watch how fast your topics get locked for trolling. I especially like how you tell people about how their Tippmann made stock in garbage and useless, and how my Tippmann made expansion chamber is crap.

Tippmann 4 Stage Expansion Chambers are about the same price, if not more than a Core 8 Stage. The Core X-Chamber is ten time the Expansion Chamber the Tippmann one is. So now you want me to show blind product loyalty, even if there are products out there that are better? If you think that way, you have no buisness advising people on this forum.

Oh and as for the company Special Ops, they have done more for Tippmann the company then any other company out there. They are responsible for the sale of more Tippmann guns then any other company. I can garuntee you that the other paintball companies combined do alot more for Tippmann than Spec Ops does. Hell, I bet SpecOps accounts for less than 10% of Tippmann Sales. So I guess in the end it comes down to a company that makes them millions and millions, and a speed ball player that thinks he knows it all and sits on a Tippmann forum, bad mouthing Tippmann upgrades.

Since when did I start bad-mouthing Tippmann Upgrades? I have to see this...

You see I don't have to win, I just need to not be brow beaten by the speedball crew who think they have taken over this forum.

Like I sad Earlier, I play more scenerio/woodsball than I do speedball. However I enjoy both.
[/QUOTE]
I don't know what to think. I don't know if you are just to stupid to comprehend what I am saying, if you don't know how to read, or if you are just plain retarded.

You lost this arguement before it started. Your arguements don't hold up, and now you try (and fail to) insult me. You have one of the most pathetic excuses for a Sniper arguement I have ever seen, one that is not even based on fact. Your arguement is based on one Definition, which has been proven to be inaccurate time and time again. At least soem of pro-sniper other people(Mack) had some sort of phyiscal evidence, and paintball expericance to go along with their arguements(Mack has been converted to the other side since then, BTW). I suggest you drop this arguement now, before you insult yourself even more.
[/QUOTE]

BAM! Second Point Failed.
Lol are you a chef in your day job

The average Shot to Kill Ratio of a Sniper is 1.3 Rounds Fired to 1 Kill. Your Shot to kill ratio is 3.3 shots per kill. About triple that of a Sniper.
I can't believe that you actually spent the time calculating that. You do know that this is just paintball don't you and that you are in no way part of a real war

I just need to continue putting out info that new players can see, so that everytime they try to develop a sniper style gun or a sniper style of play that they don't get squashed down by a few finatical speed ball, players on a Tippmann forum that they obvously have no place on. You go ahead and do that. Watch how fast your topics get locked for trolling.
(Mack has been converted to the other side since then, BTW)
I don't know what to think. I don't know if you are just to stupid to comprehend what I am saying, if you don't know how to read, or if you are just plain retarded.

Hail Hitler, come over to the dark side resistance is futile. Who exactly do you think you are anyway, you obvously never  managed to make much of a go for yourself in life. I bet you are probably like a part time speed ball field guardian. Helping people with thier guns and mask and kicking people out when they break the rules. And I bet you that paintball has become your whole life hasn't it, don't tell me you play on a team and when you do you are usually in charge and make most of the major decisions. You are probably the most absolute finatic I have ever met on a forum, listen to me and believe or you are stupid and retarded. If you try to post info that contradicts with my superior opinion and superior knowledge your post will be locked. My power is so great that if you try to argue with me, you will have already lost before you even type in the comments. LOLOLOLOL You really are one of a kind, I got to give you that, and man you are excitable. But calling someone retarded because they don't listen to your delusions of granger.

My advise would be to the people around you to realize that after all it is just a game and to get a life and not get drug down with you.

I know I said that I would end this argument, so I am sorry for even posting this reply, but I just could not resist this one, lol. The reight is right.

I tell you what if it makes you feel better, you and the minions have won this argument, man you just have all the angles covered, you can go back to kicking small kids off the field when they show up with guns with stocks on them, or scopes.

But just remember, winning an argument on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarded

Baewolf wrote: Snake6 wrote: Baewolf wrote: By the way everything that I wrote happened in less then then 3 minutes, and the other guys were moving together, the guy with the ion that stepped out did it because he only saw the guy behind me, and the second one that ran across watched the first one get shot, and figured that the paint came from the position behind me and came around to try and flank him, and the third guy was standing pretty much behind the bunker that the first one stepped out from when he was shot. So no they did not come in one at a time, and they were working together, if what you mean by working together is they ran at me at the same time, well no they did not do that, but then again they also did not line up and walk towards me either.   Ok, well put this to the Sniper test. Did You: 1. Eliminate the Targets From beyond the Effective range of return fire? 2. Were the Targets high-value? IE: Enemy Officers, Radiomen, Crew-Served Weapons Crews? 3. Did you take all three shots without being seen by anyone else or postively identified by any other enemies? 4. Did you egress the area without being fired apon, or being spotted? Man you really take all of this to heart don't you. "2. Were the Targets high-value? IE: Enemy Officers, Radiomen, Crew-Served Weapons Crews?" What kind of paintball have you been playing? Quick lets take out the enemy officers My point exactly. In a real scenerio game(obiviously somthing that you have never played) There are Enemy officers, and High-Value Targets(depends on what charactor your playing). But my point is that A Sniper does not shoot indescriminatly, he shoots at high-value targets. High-value targets are hard to come by in paintball. "1. Eliminate the Targets From beyond the Effective range of return fire?" Like you said all paintball guns fire the same distance, but I did take out all the guys who did not see me BAM! Second Point Failed. "3. Did you take all three shots without being seen by anyone else or postively identified by any other enemies?" Actually it was more like 10 shots without being positivly identified. The average Shot to Kill Ratio of a Sniper is 1.3 Rounds Fired to 1 Kill. Your Shot to kill ratio is 3.3 shots per kill. About triple that of a Sniper. This argument for you and your little minions is not really about convincing me that I am wrong, it is about you guys convincing everyone else that comes on the forum that I am wrong. So I really don't need to "win this argument". You are right, you lost before it even started. Unless you can change physics, or create a marker that can shoot at least 200 feet accuratly. I just need to continue putting out info that new players can see, so that everytime they try to develop a sniper style gun or a sniper style of play that they don't get squashed down by a few finatical speed ball, players on a Tippmann forum that they obvously have no place on. You go ahead and do that. Watch how fast your topics get locked for trolling. I especially like how you tell people about how their Tippmann made stock in garbage and useless, and how my Tippmann made expansion chamber is crap. Tippmann 4 Stage Expansion Chambers are about the same price, if not more than a Core 8 Stage. The Core X-Chamber is ten time the Expansion Chamber the Tippmann one is. So now you want me to show blind product loyalty, even if there are products out there that are better? If you think that way, you have no buisness advising people on this forum. Oh and as for the company Special Ops, they have done more for Tippmann the company then any other company out there. They are responsible for the sale of more Tippmann guns then any other company. I can garuntee you that the other paintball companies combined do alot more for Tippmann than Spec Ops does. Hell, I bet SpecOps accounts for less than 10% of Tippmann Sales. So I guess in the end it comes down to a company that makes them millions and millions, and a speed ball player that thinks he knows it all and sits on a Tippmann forum, bad mouthing Tippmann upgrades. Since when did I start bad-mouthing Tippmann Upgrades? I have to see this... You see I don't have to win, I just need to not be brow beaten by the speedball crew who think they have taken over this forum. Like I sad Earlier, I play more scenerio/woodsball than I do speedball. However I enjoy both.

I don't know what to think. I don't know if you are just to stupid to comprehend what I am saying, if you don't know how to read, or if you are just plain retarded.

You lost this arguement before it started. Your arguements don't hold up, and now you try (and fail to) insult me. You have one of the most pathetic excuses for a Sniper arguement I have ever seen, one that is not even based on fact. Your arguement is based on one Definition, which has been proven to be inaccurate time and time again. At least soem of pro-sniper other people(Mack) had some sort of phyiscal evidence, and paintball expericance to go along with their arguements(Mack has been converted to the other side since then, BTW). I suggest you drop this arguement now, before you insult yourself even more.


Edited by Snake6 - 20 March 2006 at 9:14am

Snake6 wrote: Baewolf wrote: By the way everything that I wrote happened in less then then 3 minutes, and the other guys were moving together, the guy with the ion that stepped out did it because he only saw the guy behind me, and the second one that ran across watched the first one get shot, and figured that the paint came from the position behind me and came around to try and flank him, and the third guy was standing pretty much behind the bunker that the first one stepped out from when he was shot. So no they did not come in one at a time, and they were working together, if what you mean by working together is they ran at me at the same time, well no they did not do that, but then again they also did not line up and walk towards me either.   Ok, well put this to the Sniper test. Did You: 1. Eliminate the Targets From beyond the Effective range of return fire? 2. Were the Targets high-value? IE: Enemy Officers, Radiomen, Crew-Served Weapons Crews? 3. Did you take all three shots without being seen by anyone else or postively identified by any other enemies? 4. Did you egress the area without being fired apon, or being spotted?

Man you really take all of this to heart don't you.
"2. Were the Targets high-value? IE: Enemy Officers, Radiomen, Crew-Served Weapons Crews?"
What kind of paintball have you been playing? Quick lets take out the enemy officers
"1. Eliminate the Targets From beyond the Effective range of return fire?"
Like you said all paintball guns fire the same distance, but I did take out all the guys who did not see me

"3. Did you take all three shots without being seen by anyone else or postively identified by any other enemies?"
Actually it was more like 10 shots without being positivly identified.

This argument for you and your little minions is not really about convincing me that I am wrong, it is about you guys convincing everyone else that comes on the forum that I am wrong. So I really don't need to "win this argument". I just need to continue putting out info that new players can see, so that everytime they try to develop a sniper style gun or a sniper style of play that they don't get squashed down by a few finatical speed ball, players on a Tippmann forum that they obvously have no place on. I especially like how you tell people about how their Tippmann made stock in garbage and useless, and how my Tippmann made expansion chamber is crap.
Oh and as for the company Special Ops, they have done more for Tippmann the company then any other company out there. They are responsible for the sale of more Tippmann guns then any other company. So I guess in the end it comes down to a company that makes them millions and millions, and a speed ball player that thinks he knows it all and sits on a Tippmann forum, bad mouthing Tippmann upgrades.

You see I don't have to win, I just need to not be brow beaten by the speedball crew who think they have taken over this forum.



 

Baewolf wrote: Snake6 wrote: Baewolf wrote: Cool article from an x Canadian Sniper from the military, who started playing paintball, turns out he is from my Province. Some very useful tips, on woods ball play http://www.specialopspaintball.com/articles/sniperinterview. asp I suggest you read the article.. He is not a real Sniper. Yeah I did especially the part where the interviewer asked him the specifics on what area's he specialized in "What was your specialized area of training? In the Canadian army all soldiers are crossed trained as much as possible. This means that any individual soldier can do almost any job within the battalion. I was qualified as machine gunner, mortarman, mortar fire controller, wheeled vehicle driver, tracked vehicle driver, reconnaissance, and sniper." What are the primary similarities between paintball sniping and military (other than the obvious consequences of success or failure)? I find that the greatest similarity is sneaking into and shooting from a concealed position. (SNIP)

As any Military, or Ex- Military member will tell you, being cross-trained in something and actually having that job as a MOS are two completly different things. When you are cross trained in a job, you learn the absolute basics that are nessasary to carry out a job. You do not learn the finer points of the job. Most likely in this "cross training" this so called "sniper" got a Scope attached to his rifle, and was allowed to go back to his unit with this scope attached. He most likely didn't go to a dedicated sniper school that tought extensive sniper tactics for weeks and weeks.

Also I suggest you look at where this article is coming from, this guy is SPONSERED by Special Ops Paintball. Of course he is going to say what they want him to say because they are frickin paying him to say what they want. If somone paid you a few hundred dollars(at least) to say that there are no snipers in paintball, would you?

And the funny thing is that you have proved my point in your post.

Article wrote: What are the primary similarities between paintball sniping and military (other than the obvious consequences of success or failure)? I find that the greatest similarity is sneaking into and shooting from a concealed position.

Right there! Right there he pretty much says that there are virtually NO similarites between sniping and paintball.

Oh, yeah... I forgot. I'm a UBER 1337 5n1p3r now! Last weekend when I was playing paintball, I was hiding in a trench and I shot a guy from about 10ft away in the back with my SL-68II, without him seeing me. I guess now I have to admit that I'm a Sniper, becuase according to your post it makes me one.

I challenge you to join your country's military, and see if you have what it takes to make it to sniper school(assuming Canada has dedicated sniper school). I will bet you that IF you make it to sniper school in the first place, AND make it through the school you will have an entirely different outlook on what a sniper is.

You are not going to win this argurement. It has been proven with actual facts(things that you do not have to back up your arguement) that there are no snipers in paintball. Give it up.

spartan119 wrote: Why do you guys even care if somone likes to play a "sniper" or a "sniper"-like role in paintball?  This whole thread has been ignorant speedballers trying to tell somone that there is no such thing as a sniper in paintball. I play more Woodsball/Scenerio than I play Speedball, but I enjoy a good Speedball game as much as anyone else. You're obviously not going to change his mind, because he is playing a "sniper" in the paintball sense of the word (which could more accurately be classified as a sharpshooter), and it is working for him.  A sniper rifle can shoot farther/more accurately than a normal rifle in real life, and with a standard barrel, that is not so in paintball.  However, a "sniper" in both the real world and in the paintball one use a minimal amount of shots to exterminiate his target(s), and fire at his enemy from a concealed location, like was previously mentioned. You forget the other points that are required of being a Sniper. 1.) A Sniper must Fire from beyond the range of effective return fire. 2.) A Sniper must have the ability to Egress the the area without being engaged after taking a shot. 3.) A Sniper Eliminates High-Value Targets, Such as Enemy officers, Radiomen, Crew Served Weaponry, etc. Even though, especially in speedball, unless you have a pump, you are most likely not going to use a minimal amount of shots like was stated earlier in order to be classified as a "sniper." The last time I checked you can pull the trigger on a Matrix and only make one ball shoot.  If you want to go and be a **edited** and say that your a l33t sniper if you take the snake and get a few guys out without them seeing you, then that's fine, but please, after you do so find yourself a hobby that involves interacting with people that you can physically socialize with, or at least find yourself a girlfriend so you won't feel the need to go on the internet and spend your time challenging forumers to intellectual battles and trying to disprove paintball sniping. I disagree. The burdon of proof is not on the Anti-Sniping crowd, it is on the Pro-Sniping crowd. You have to prove that basic Sniper tactics can be fielded effectivly in the game of paintball, I don't have to prove that they cannot. It has alreadyt been proven numerous times that it is impossible to effectively field Sniper tactics in the game of paintball. Until you can prove otherwise, the burdon of proof is on you. thank you.

yo that is the best sn1pez0r @ng31 3v3r, i7 \/\/1/|/$ 7h3 pr1z3

that took some time

Methinks pcf hit a nerve with Baewolf?

I usually stay away from these rather goofy sniper discussions (and I like milsim as much as the next guy, and I certainly think everybody should play however they like), but I have to make the rather obvious observations:

1.  It was rather polite of Baewolf's opponents to come at him one at a time.  It they were less stupid and played like an actual team he would have been dead rather fast.  Basic woodsball skills involves teamwork, not wandering off by yourself.  It doesn't count as being outnumbered when your opponents effectively play you 1-on-1.  That's like Bruce Lee defeating a million opponents, as they stand around him in a circle and attack on at a time.  That example sounded like an opsgear video.  In reality those situations only happen rarely, unless you are playing against the local special ed school.

2.  Baewolf wasn't a "sniper" in any meaningful sense of the word - he was simply a well-hidden guy on defense, who had the good fortune to have people walk on by (one at a time).  He chose a good defending spot, his Ion-wielding team-mate chose a poor hiding spot.  but every woodsplayer with any skill knows not to hide in the obvious spot - that doesn't make you a "sniper", it just makes you "not an idiot".

3.  It is unclear whether Baewolf was being sarcastic or simply has no speedball experience, but his description/criticism of pcf's snake scenario makes no sense, and certainly misses the point of just how similar the situations are, except that pcf's example involves very aggressive play.  Playing the snake is a specific technique for getting around to flank people, hopefully unawares.  It is quite common in speedball to be shooting people who don't know where you are - that's the best way.  I thought pcf's hypothetical made a lot of sense, and Baewolf's dismissal displayed only lack of understanding.

OS has it right on this point, although I think he overdoes the rhetoric a bit - virtually every skill, tactic, and maneuver employed by self-described "snipers" is also employed by every other woodsball player out there.  Baewolf's defense example sounds exactly like every time I play woodsball defense, minus the ghillie and the stupid opponents.  That doesn't make me a sniper - it makes me a non-stupid woodsball player.

That said, I think this is mostly a matter of semantics - nobody doubts that good fieldcraft skills are helpful in the woods.  The "question" is merely whether that makes you a "sniper" or just "woodsballer".

Edited by Clark Kent - 20 March 2006 at 1:18am