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Panda Man
Platinum Member I’ll feed you to my SNAKE!! METALFACE!! Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 10605 |
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um... this is paintball... and um... I've never seen a Successful break
after 240ft. and usally if you can hit some one that far away its pure
luck.
I belive that there are people who set Ambush's, but I'm sorry to say... until paintball gets a marker that get a ball to fly over 750ft. I wont belive in Snipers. |
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Snake6
Platinum Member Outranked by guitarguy? Joined: 11 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11229 |
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Trolling is intentionally creating posts that you know are inflamitory, and will cause arguements/flaming. "Trolling for a Reaction". So according to your post anyone can come in here and go "OMGZ TIPPMANNZ SUCKZ, GET A TIMMY!!!!!!!!!" and get away with it because that is their opinion. If you want to talk Snipers in Paintball, take it to specops. |
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Baewolf
Member Joined: 11 January 2006 Status: Offline Points: 244 |
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Trolling is intentionally creating posts that you know are inflamitory, and will cause arguements/flaming. "Trolling for a Reaction". So according to your post anyone can come in here and go "OMGZ TIPPMANNZ SUCKZ, GET A TIMMY!!!!!!!!!" and get away with it because that is their opinion. If you want to talk Snipers in Paintball, take it to specops. [/QUOTE] Its not my fault that talking about stocks, or scopes or sniping makes you inflamed, or causes you to flame. Evertime someone trys to speak about these things you guys jump all over them, I don't think that it is right, and as for it inflaming you, well don't read them. I am going to put up posting with the intention of sharing an opinion and offering information to people who are interested in reading it. Oh and by the way I think that Tippmanns are the best paintball guns ever made, and that Timmy's suck, but hey thats my opinion and I am entitled to it. You guys really need to drop the serious side, it's just paintball and opinions, try not to get so "inflamitory" Edited by Baewolf - 17 March 2006 at 1:05pm |
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Don't bring a speed ball gun to a woods ball fight
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procarbinefreak
Moderator Group Budget Medical Procedures Available Joined: 12 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12920 |
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go ahead and make a sniper post... i'd love to see you try to back it up.
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Snake6
Platinum Member Outranked by guitarguy? Joined: 11 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11229 |
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You are entitled to your opinion. But if your only reason for expressing your opinion is to get a rise out of people(which is your sole reason for posting all of this) its called "trolling" and is not tolerated on this forum. Any of the mods will tell you the same thing. Now, can we get back to the original topic? |
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kevinthegreat
Member Joined: 14 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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it's not much but it gets me by.. I also have an a-5 that I'm working on, but no pics yet. |
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Tippmann A-5
Polished internals 4.2 inch rifled barrel Destroyed OD paintjob Love |
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Snake6
Platinum Member Outranked by guitarguy? Joined: 11 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11229 |
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Thank You.
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kevinthegreat
Member Joined: 14 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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No problem. I was gonna wait for someone else to do it but I figured I'd be waiting a while.
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Tippmann A-5
Polished internals 4.2 inch rifled barrel Destroyed OD paintjob Love |
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KALIS-PIMENTA
Member Strike 2 for inflammatory posting 3/3/06 Joined: 19 January 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 342 |
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About the sniping issue. Sniper 1 shot 1 kill. Now tell me, if the guys at specialops believe in that they would only need a couple of balls to wipe out the opposite team.Until they find a way to give flawless consistency to a marker, sniping will be impossible, for me now it's just a myth
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Snake6
Platinum Member Outranked by guitarguy? Joined: 11 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11229 |
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You forget that this mystery marker would also have to have at least double the range of existing paintball markers. But lets get back on subject, shall we? |
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Baewolf
Member Joined: 11 January 2006 Status: Offline Points: 244 |
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Cool article from an x Canadian Sniper from the military, who started
playing paintball, turns out he is from my Province. Some very useful
tips, on woods ball play
http://www.specialopspaintball.com/articles/sniperinterview. asp Edited by Baewolf - 17 March 2006 at 8:01pm |
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Don't bring a speed ball gun to a woods ball fight
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warhead
Member Strike 1 - Language Joined: 16 February 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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ya speedball guns can be used in the woods, just as woodsball guns can be used in speed, but each gun is out of its elements... most speed guns are electronic from what i gather, i wouldent want to take an electronic marker into the rain and mud... just as i would never want to take my tippmann (no matter how tricked out) into the speed feild, tippmanns are reliable and can handle the elements are are good with c02 thats why there used in the woods... as for milslim, i dont like em much sure they look fly and all but i try to keep my marker for performance only, a stock is pointless to me cause i rest my tank on the inside of my arm giving me suppot and a clear sight down the barrel, i dont need no scopes or nifty looking mags either... but in the end it is all preference. thats my 2 cents |
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Snake6
Platinum Member Outranked by guitarguy? Joined: 11 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11229 |
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I suggest you read the article.. He is not a real Sniper. |
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DsXz
Gold Member Guested 3 strikes 10/25 Joined: 07 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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Mehs
Moderator Group An Hero Joined: 27 March 2004 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 3907 |
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Panda Man
Platinum Member I’ll feed you to my SNAKE!! METALFACE!! Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 10605 |
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holy mother...
Resize that.. for the sake of bandwidth. |
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Baewolf
Member Joined: 11 January 2006 Status: Offline Points: 244 |
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Yeah I did especially the part where the interviewer asked him the specifics on what area's he specialized in "What was your specialized area of training? In the Canadian army all soldiers are crossed trained as much as possible. This means that any individual soldier can do almost any job within the battalion. I was qualified as machine gunner, mortarman, mortar fire controller, wheeled vehicle driver, tracked vehicle driver, reconnaissance, and sniper." What are the primary similarities between paintball sniping and military (other than the obvious consequences of success or failure)? I find that the greatest similarity is sneaking into and shooting from a concealed position. Sniper a marksman who shoots at people from a concealed place Sniper= A "marksman" shooting at someone from a concealed place Edited by Baewolf - 18 March 2006 at 5:03pm |
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Don't bring a speed ball gun to a woods ball fight
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Panda Man
Platinum Member I’ll feed you to my SNAKE!! METALFACE!! Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 10605 |
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Well, if that was so... then everyone in paintball is a Sniper, expecially if you play Speed/X-ball. |
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Mehs
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You're wrong. The History of Military Sniping, and how it relates to the Game of Paintball. Ok. So I got bored, and I am sick and tried of this stupid sniper debate. I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas, and didn’t know what else to get so I picked up several books on Military Snipers. Here are my findings. < -- Note: Due to a problem with my code, you have to Highlight my rifle comparison tables to see them. It’s a bother, but if someone knows how to fix it, PM me. -- > First lets go over the basics of what a sniper is, and what a sniper is not. “A sniper…is considered a specialist, whose prime function is to kill selected high value targets at long range using superior skill and armament. A sharpshooter, by contrast, is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises” From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert Keep this in your mind as you read the rest of the article. The American Revolution (1775-83) Sniping first came onto the battlefield during the American Revolution. Standard infantry of this period were equipped with “Brown Bess” smoothbore muskets. The Continental Congress approves 10 independent companies, armed with long rifles. The men of these companies were the first snipers. Comparison between the “Brown Bess” musket, and the Long Rifle. “A soldiers musket, if not exceedingly ill bored (as many are), will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards: it may even at 100, but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, provided that the antagonist aims at him; as to firing at a man at 200 yards, with a common, musket, you might as well fire at the moon.” –British Major Hanger, on the “Brown Bess” musket In contrast, the American Long Rifle (as carried by the Irregular
companies), was effective in ranges up to 300 yards, and headshots could be
achieved at 200. At these ranges American Snipers picked-off high ranking
British Officers. During the battle of
As you can see from the table, the Rifle outranged the common muskets of the time by over 200 yards. The War of Northern Aggression (American Civil War) (1861-65) During the Civil War, the standard infantry rifles were the Confederate Snipers were selected in a manner which has been used to select snipers in most present wars. The best men from each infantry regiment entered into shooting competitions. They were required to hit man-sized boards at 500 yards. The best shooters were given the prized Kerr and Witworth rifles. They then went through extensive training in the use of these rifles. The snipers were warned never to get within 400 yards of the enemy, but to use their superior range, to keep the enemy at a safe distance.
World War I (1914-18) US Snipers during World War I used modified, and accurized versions of
the standard service rifle the World War II (1938-45) World War II snipers were selected in different manners during the war. I will concentrate on the Marine Corps Snipers trained at Green’s Farm because the documentation of this school and its snipers is the best. There, snipers were instructed in 5 week courses in marksmanship, camouflage, and field craft. They were trained to approach a target using stealth and to eliminate the target from long distances. These snipers were required to hit a moving target at 500 yards, and to hit a stationary target at 1000. They were equipped much the same way as snipers in WWI were. These snipers used accurized versions of the M1903 Springfield service rifle, the A1 or A3 variants equipped with 2 or 4 power scopes. Marine Infantry qualified at 500 yards.
Vietnam (1965-75) Vietnam is the perfect example of how a sniper can be employed during combat. The restrictive ROE and vast open fields and rice paddy’s of Vietnam became prime sniper territory. The Marine Corps and the Army both Fielded Snipers. Army snipers were equipped with accurized versions of the M14 service rifle, accurate out to 700 yards. The Marine Corps fielded snipers equipped with Winchester Model 70 Hunting rifles firing the .30-06 cartridge, and later in the war snipers carried the M40, which fired the standard 7.62x51mm(.308) cartridge both of these rifles had an effective range of over 1000 yards. Also snipers used modified M2 .50 caliber machine guns, fitted with scopes. These were accurate to ranges out to 2500 yards. Normal infantry of the time fired the M16 Assault Rifle, and the enemy fired the AK-47 assault rifle. These rifles were designed for infantry combat which takes place in ranges of only around 200 yards, and can only be fired accurately up to 500 yards. Thus snipers were able to operate with impunity from beyond the range of effective return fire of the enemy.
Now through all these wars several things have remained in common among snipers, lets analyze these facts: A sniper acts independently from standard infantry, not as a part of a
unit but in a one or two man team. This is possible in paintball, most of the time in scenario games, I am alone behind enemy lines trying to accomplish a mission. But you do very little if any tactical good for your team waiting in one spot for an entire game, hoping a target of high-value (such as the opposing general) walks by. A sniper does not act at random, he selects targets of high value and
eliminates them. Targets of High Value in a military sense are:
Targets of High Value in Paintball:
The problem with selecting high value targets in a scenario paintball game is, there are very few. The vast majority of players play independently, not under any command and they do what they want. What officers and team captains there are do not look any different than any other players. The Sniper fires at targets from
beyond the range of return fire by the standard infantry weapons, or from
distances that were beyond the training of the normal infantryman. As you can see from the diagrams of the Sniper Rifles of the Period in comparison to the standard issue infantry weapons, the sniper rifle always has a great deal more range than infantry weapons, and the sniper has been trained to an accuracy standard that is beyond that of standard infantry training. This is where sniping in paintball fails. All paintball markers except those equipped with the Flatline or Apex systems fire the same distance, around 25 yards or 75 feet. The Flatline will reach ranges of up to 150 ft, but because the ball loses velocity at the same rate as a normal paintball, the chances of getting a break, or a single accurate shot at those ranges are close to zero. The sniper uses a single accurate shot to take his targets down. The ammunition expended to kill ratio of a sniper in Vietnam was 1.7 rounds per kill. The average infantryman expended 50,000 rounds per confirmed kill. It is possible to take targets down with a single shot in paintball. However it is near impossible to eliminate a target with a single shot from beyond the effective range of return fire by the enemy. A sniper uses camouflage and
concealment to hide himself from his enemies to eliminate his targets. No qualms with this, it can be done. Most every scenario paintball player does it. Using camouflage doe not make you sniper. Now as you can see there are several places where sniping fails in paintball. Now look at the definition of a Sharpshooter: “A sharpshooter… is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises” From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert Ok, this looks a little more feasible in the game of paintball than the sniper definition doesn’t it? For paintball purposes we can strike rifleman, because there are no rifles in paintball. “who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises” This sounds feasible. The definition of a sniper that Spec Ops puts forth is one of an “ambush player” that fires from concealment, using camouflage. The problem with the Spec Ops definition of a sniper is that it perfectly describes the definition of a sharpshooter in a military sense. So we will set forth the definition of a Sharpshooter in paintball. This is what most of you would call a Sniper in paintball. A sharpshooter takes shots from concealment, shoots at targets as the opportunity arises, and uses a marker that has the same range as everyone else’s. This is not a Sniper. This is a sharpshooter. You will never be a sniper in paintball simple ballistics prevent this from ever happening. The fact of the matter is if you think you are a sniper in paintball, your terminology is wrong. The definition of a sharpshooter, fits paintball a lot closer that the definition of a sniper. But for those of you who insist that you are still snipers, look at an analogy: You work for a living. Your job is to go to people’s houses and businesses, to pick up their trash and take it to the dump. You drive a Garbage Truck. What would you be called, a Garbage Man, or a Professional Truck Driver? You would be called a Garbage Man, would you not? As much as you would prefer to be called a Professional Truck Driver, everyone would call you a Garbage Man because it fits what you are doing better than the title Professional Truck Driver does. The definition
of Sharpshooter, or a Designated Marksman fits what you are doing in paintball
a whole lot better than Sniper does. Stop fooling yourself. References: SNIPER- Adrian
Gilbert One Shot-One
Kill- Charles W. Sasser and Craig Roberts Marine Sniper-
Charles Henderson Authors Note:
In my haste of writing this, I may have gotten some minor facts mixed up, or in
the wrong place. Please contact me with the correct info if you have something
to add, or a correction. |
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procarbinefreak
Moderator Group Budget Medical Procedures Available Joined: 12 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12920 |
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so baewolf... answer my question...
if i go into the snake on a speedball course, pop up and take out 3 people not looking at me... and remain hidden from the rest of the team.. am i a sniper? anyone in their right mind is going to try to stay concealed... especially in the woods! that doesn't make em a super duper snipzorz... get over it. |
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