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PBI E-Bolt Ram Problem |
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UV Halo
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Joined: 19 August 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 229 |
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Topic: PBI E-Bolt Ram ProblemPosted: 14 May 2006 at 6:59pm |
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Symptom:
When firing, e-bolt begins to behave erratically, and eventually, it stops cycling. The trigger pull causes air to vent out of port above the Solenoid's input. Attempts to manually move the hammer unsuccessful. Note: The ram was well oiled. Where I'm at: I took the ram apart and I found that the piston head had become unscrewed, and lodged in the back end of the ram. I threaded the hammer/rod back onto the piston and with some force, I was able to free the piston. Observations: My perception is that the ram was not made very well. The return spring makes continous, direct, sliding contact with the walls of the ram cylinder, this causes uneven wear. This uneven wear caused the piston head to rub unevenly (with direct metal to metal contact), and is causing the piston to seize. Could use some advice here from Bruce A Frank, or anyone else who knows as much. My perception is that I either gotta build a new air ram assembly (www.emachineshop.com, using the dimensions of the current one), or get a new gun (I'm hooked on E-pneumatics now). |
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
Comp Air & Palmer Fatty Stab Gas-Thru Stock Lapco Sight Rail W/ADCO 30MM EDOT Qloader W/ CMS Freak SS W/Stif-Tip * Flatline * Armson Stealth |
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Bruce A. Frank
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Posted: 15 May 2006 at 4:16am |
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Clean the inside of the ram barrel well to remove any trash or metal flakes from wear. Install a new "O" ring on the piston head and screw the piston back onto the shaft using blue Loc Tite or any medium thread locker. (if you see no roughness in the bore and the "O" ring isn't flattened on the bore contact edge then reuse it) Now lubricate the thing with lithium grease rather than the light oil you use for all the other friction points in the marker. Don't worry about the spring, it is smooth on the outside and rides with virtually no friction on the inside of the ram bore. A new "O" ring is going to have to be found at someplace like a machine shop supply or a machine shop. Most carry a kit containing many sizes. Even places like Home Depot and Lowe's carry "O" rings that will handle lithium grease. Urethane "O" is about the toughest, but it is not critical. It isn't unreasonable to replace the "O ring once a season. If you ever set your ram up to be double acting the lithium grease is essential for good function. It will also aid the seal of the "O" ring to the bore. Running a couple of drops of oil through the ASA will keep things working, but the ram really works best with the grease...so replenish it once in a while...every 6 months or so. Light oil actually seems to make my ram stick just a bit. Never have had a problem with lithium grease. |
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UV Halo
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Posted: 15 May 2006 at 7:04pm |
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Thanks Bruce!!
I cleaned all the parts off and threadlocked the piston head back onto the shaft last night so, it should hold. I'm a little concernced as I can see scratches running the full length of the cylinder bore (and parallel ones on the head as well). In any case, I'm gonna head to Home Depot here in a few moments to try out your suggestion. On a related note, I never got around to doing either of the Main Valve noise reduction mods you described to me awhile ago. I was wondering how the metal strip/O-ring variant has been holding up after all this time. |
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
Comp Air & Palmer Fatty Stab Gas-Thru Stock Lapco Sight Rail W/ADCO 30MM EDOT Qloader W/ CMS Freak SS W/Stif-Tip * Flatline * Armson Stealth |
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tigman250
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Posted: 15 May 2006 at 7:52pm |
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my ram locked in the back position once, the problem was the head of the cyl. has unscrewed a bit and allowed the ram to slam into the rear position locking it up tight. just had to screw the head back on a few turns loctite it and reloctite the set screw that holds it. i assume this is why they have a o-ring on the cylinder shaft to act as a buffer.
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UV Halo
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Posted: 17 May 2006 at 8:53pm |
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Excellent advice Bruce!! I've done the repairs, and I've just
drained a 47ci 3k tank through it with no problems. I'm gonna do
the same now with a 68ci 4.5k tank and if all goes well, I will
consider it done.
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
Comp Air & Palmer Fatty Stab Gas-Thru Stock Lapco Sight Rail W/ADCO 30MM EDOT Qloader W/ CMS Freak SS W/Stif-Tip * Flatline * Armson Stealth |
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Bruce A. Frank
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Posted: 17 May 2006 at 9:26pm |
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Glad I could help, and thanks for letting me know that I did help. Could you post a picture of your marker? |
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UV Halo
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Posted: 17 May 2006 at 11:31pm |
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Done, It's here.
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
Comp Air & Palmer Fatty Stab Gas-Thru Stock Lapco Sight Rail W/ADCO 30MM EDOT Qloader W/ CMS Freak SS W/Stif-Tip * Flatline * Armson Stealth |
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UV Halo
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Posted: 26 May 2006 at 10:03pm |
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Well, It's over now. At least for a little while.
While going over my gear to ensure that it is ready for tomorrow's games, I ran into another round of E-Bolt failure. Even though it was well greased (with the Lithium), the ram began to fail to retract all the way. I took it apart, and made sure that the piston head was still tightend to the rod. I put it all back together, and while cycling it to give it a final test, it failed. The threads on the piston end of the rod broke off. I strongly suspect that this is due to poor craftsmanship. (I don't think the piston head was at a true 90degrees, causing it to grind against the inside of the cylinder walls, until it seized. The repeated excess stress on the rod eventually causing it to snap at the threads. So, where to go. Do I put more money into this marker to have a custom ram built (using the specs of my current one, I could have another built with tighter tolerances)? Or is it time to get another marker?? For now, I'm back to mechanical. Edited by UV Halo - 26 May 2006 at 10:05pm |
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
Comp Air & Palmer Fatty Stab Gas-Thru Stock Lapco Sight Rail W/ADCO 30MM EDOT Qloader W/ CMS Freak SS W/Stif-Tip * Flatline * Armson Stealth |
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Bruce A. Frank
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Posted: 26 May 2006 at 10:29pm |
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Wicked Air is listing a ram that is likely adaptable. As for the broken rod. Such rods with threads on both ends are available at industrial supply places. If you cannot locate such a double ended rod, a long bolt of the correct diameter could be cut to length and the un-threaded end threaded to exactly replace the broken rod. There are commercial rams that function exactly like the one you have...requiring only a collar machined to fit the shell. Also, Palmer has a replacement ram for another brand of marker that also may be adaptable. If you cannot get satisfaction from a vendor, send the complete ram to me and I'll see if I can turn a new rod for you. Edited by Bruce A. Frank - 27 May 2006 at 4:29pm |
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tigman250
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Posted: 26 May 2006 at 11:33pm |
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don't give up on it yet as Bruce stated there are many cheap options including sending it to Bruce for him to make a new rod. that's nice of you to offer Bruce
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UV Halo
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Posted: 27 May 2006 at 8:02pm |
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Thanks you two.
However, I
don't think the problem is just with the rod. At least not
anymore. I mean, the rod is steel, the cylinder is aluminum, and
the piston is still jammed in there. That's
enough to tell me the cylinder is trashed. After getting the
piston out, I'd have to get the cylinder re-bored, which would require
a new piston and o-ring to match it.I think I'm gonna go through with designing a new one in CAD, I'll have a rapid prototype (plastic) produced, check it for fitment, and obtain pricing info for a single unit and multiples. Then, I'll let everybody here know and test the waters for a group buy (no profit for myself but, I'd gladly accept donations). If I get enough interest, I'll go with a group buy. In the meantime, I'll keep playing with the mechanical. You know what I miss the most though? How quiet my rig was. I'm not a volume shooter (between 10:00, and 4:00, at Pev's Leesburg), I went through less than a case. BTW, the Freak,and Stif-Tip combo was really rocking it today!! ![]() |
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
Comp Air & Palmer Fatty Stab Gas-Thru Stock Lapco Sight Rail W/ADCO 30MM EDOT Qloader W/ CMS Freak SS W/Stif-Tip * Flatline * Armson Stealth |
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bravecoward
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oxymoran Joined: 21 May 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 61659 |
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Posted: 27 May 2006 at 10:42pm |
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I didn't read the thread but.
I had the same problem, increase the ram pressure. |
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Bruce A. Frank
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Posted: 27 May 2006 at 11:32pm |
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UV, You really do not have to reinvent the wheel here. There are literally hundreds of commercial/industrial rams available that will work. With that said, a plastic ram would be a real inovation...but also let me say that there are also hundreds of them in the catalogs out there. If you simply duplicate the dimensions of the unit you have right now in plastic, there would be minimal tweaking to get things up and running. Oh, a minor suggestion, try making the piston slightly longer and install two "O" rings...one at the front and one at the rear of the piston. |
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UV Halo
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Posted: 28 May 2006 at 9:33am |
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I agree that other rams may work. However, something will have to
be built to adapt them to the back end of the guns receiver.
Oops, sorry if I mislead you bruce, I never intended to have a functional plastic ram. I'm considering having a 'rapid prototype' made in plastic (CAD/CAM, by the same shop, very low cost, and very timely) so that I can check for fitment. Then, if everything fits, I would have the final design priced. I was also considering a longer piston with dual o-rings. It would help keep the piston true to the cylinder walls. At this point though I still haven't made up my mind what to do. I'll keep you all informed. |
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
Comp Air & Palmer Fatty Stab Gas-Thru Stock Lapco Sight Rail W/ADCO 30MM EDOT Qloader W/ CMS Freak SS W/Stif-Tip * Flatline * Armson Stealth |
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Bruce A. Frank
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Posted: 28 May 2006 at 1:09pm |
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I have seen several home made E-Bolt configurations. The off-the-shelf rams used required only a collar machined from aluminum that fit the marker grooves and clamped around the ram cylinder. Hight strength "glues" were used between the collar and the cylinder (Loc Tite makes a product called something like "Shaft Metal" designed to solidly fix bearings to shafts)
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