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Jury of your peers...

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BARREL BREAK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jury of your peers...
    Posted: 14 November 2007 at 3:11am
What exactly does that mean?
Anybody with legal expertise want to chime in?

Mainly came up while I was watching "Freedom Downtime," a movie about the mess that was the Kevin Mitnick trial. He was being tried and sentenced by people who had no clue what he had done, could do, or was even possible to do as a hacker. For crying out loud, he was put in solitary for 8 months because the judge was worried that he could launch Nukes by whistling into a payphone!
How are those people qualified to participate in a computer crime trial?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 5:10am
Because the system is flawed? That's a shocker...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 6:23am
launch nukes by whistling into a pay phone? This guy is my new role model.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 8:38am
Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

launch nukes by whistling into a pay phone? This guy is my new role model.
I'd be up for that superpower.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 9:52am
In the legal sense of a "jury of one's peers" it pertains to other legal residents of the locality in which you are being prosecuted. Ergo, if it's a city trial, they are legal citizens of the city, county = legal citizens of the county, etc. etc. It doesn't mean "Peer" in the sense of someone familiar with a particular field, or persons of the same race, or any of the other misconceptions about the terminology that abound.

Edit:

It isn't the job of the juror to understand anything about the case prior to trial. Indeed, if you have inside knowledge of particular aspects of fields that pertain to the case it will often preclude you from jury duty. Impartial juries are juries that don't know a damned thing about what they are trying. It is up to the Prosecution and the Defense to "teach" the jury members as they argue the cases.

I was precluded from serving on a jury in DC which was sitting in judgment of a civil case brought against a hospital because my brother in law is an emergency medicine practitioner and my sister is a civil defense attorney. That was considered enough prior-knowledge to keep me off the jury.

Edited by tallen702 - 14 November 2007 at 9:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tippmannfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 10:35am
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

launch nukes by whistling into a pay phone? This guy is my new role model.
I'd be up for that superpower.



does canada have nukes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 10:43am
tallen- Something seems terribly wrong there...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 10:50am

The system was designed back when cases were relatively simple - the jury's job was basically to decide who was telling the truth and who was lying.

That system doesn't work so well with DNA evidence and computer crimes.

This is why many/most complicated commercial lawsuits are handled in arbitration, where the arbitrators are selected from within the relevant industry.  There are downsides to that system as well, but at least the deciders are familiar with the subject matter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

tallen- Something seems terribly wrong there...


Not saying the system isn't damaged, just giving the insight on what the theory is. I doubt the forefathers ever even thought that anything like computers could ever exist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man Bites Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 12:31pm
I'm not a lawyer, but I do read John Grisham books. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 12:35pm
Anyone seen Lets Go to Prison ? Best qoute " The jury of your peers, is a bunch of people to stupid; to be able to get out of jury duty."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 12:36pm
lol, John Grisham

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man Bites Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:

lol, John Grisham


I am convinced that the main character in The Firm was modeled after Rambino.

He knows this theory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

tallen- Something seems terribly wrong there...


Not saying the system isn't damaged, just giving the insight on what the theory is. I doubt the forefathers ever even thought that anything like computers could ever exist.
I know what you meant, I mean something seems wrong with the system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 2:18pm

Originally posted by Man Bites Dog Man Bites Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:

lol, John Grisham


I am convinced that the main character in The Firm was modeled after Rambino.

He knows this theory.

While Grisham can be annoying at times, he has the "big evil law firm" portrayal spot on.  The Firm is, in many ways, an excellent portrayal of firm life (minus the dead bodies, generally speaking).

In one of his books he had this gem, describing the attitude of associates at big firms:  "They wore their lack of sleep like a badge of honor."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 2:25pm
It's simply "proof beyond a reasonable doubt"... what would the REASONABLE person believe, not what what the computer scientist believe.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

It's simply "proof beyond a reasonable doubt"... what would the REASONABLE person believe, not what what the computer scientist believe.
Which, of course, is idiotic. I could easily convince a normal person of some pretty ridiculous things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

It's simply "proof beyond a reasonable doubt"... what would the REASONABLE person believe, not what what the computer scientist believe.
Which, of course, is idiotic. I could easily convince a normal person of some pretty ridiculous things.


OJ Simpson.


But hey, it's that way for the greater good, just like innocent until proven guilty... even if we have video evidence, DNA, and witnesses...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ANARCHY_SCOUT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2007 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by impulse! impulse! wrote:

Anyone seen Lets Go to Prison ? Best qoute " The jury of your peers, is a bunch of people to stupid; to be able to get out of jury duty."
Loved that movie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2007 at 1:01am
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:


In one of his books he had this gem, describing the attitude of associates at big firms: "They wore their lack of sleep like a badge of honor."



I know some computer geeks and code monkeys who subscribe to the same theory.
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