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jmac3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2008 at 11:22pm
I would 3 reasons why paintball is not a sport
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Fellows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2008 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by <span style=font-weight: normal; =bold>Skillet42565</span> Skillet42565 wrote:

This forum argues over everything.  I love it.
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Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I would 3 reasons why paintball is not a sport


Start with three reasons why it is a sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2008 at 12:58am
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I would 3 reasons why paintball is not a sport


Start with three reasons why it is a sport.


Takes ability to excel
Played competitively


You get two, because I can't think of a third.

Match it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GI JOES SON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2008 at 1:58pm
heres your third- companies sponsor it just like nike does in sports like basketball
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2008 at 3:17pm

Companies sponsor reruns of Seinfeld too.  Doesn't make that a sport.

But if we are going to play semantics, I agree that paintball is, at least for some people, a sport.  It is the "professional" part that makes me laugh.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote +DreX+ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2008 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:

Companies sponsor reruns of Seinfeld too.  Doesn't make that a sport.

For fat people it is!

[QUOTE-Susan Storm]

But if we are going to play semantics, I agree that paintball is, at least for some people, a sport.  It is the "professional" part that makes me laugh.

[/QUOTE]

But paintball has n00bies as well! -> all sports have n00bies!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2008 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:


Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I would 3 reasons why paintball is not a sport


Start with three reasons why it is a sport.
Takes ability to excelPlayed competitivelyYou get two, because I can't think of a third.Match it


Chess features all those.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoninGames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 5:37am

I think there is another thing to look at here. Yes, it's a nice little cheap entry level marker. I wish this was out when I bought my first entry level marker. I wound up with a JT Tac-5 Camo. And let me tell you, that is a peice of crap. This, because it's a Tippy, I know is made much better.

 

Now look at the mil-sim look of this little marker. It looks very much like the current M-16 that the military uses. One thing that is happening in some military and law enforcement areas is the use of Paintball in as a trainning tool.

Becuase this is cheap to buy, more departments can afford to buy a number of them.

 

Yes, I know there is simunition rounds. However, the problem with those is that, to the best of my knowlage, they are only avalibe in small cal. rounds. Such as the 9mm. There is no simunition round for a 5.56 NATO round. Mostly because the round is traveling at such a high rate of speed, that it would shatter when fired.

 

So, if Tippmann worked with the US Army to make a marker that our troops can use to better their skills so they have a better chance to stay alive. Then figured that the same marker can be sold to the public. Good for them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 10:00am
If one looks at all the games that are globally considered as sports, they all have the following traits.

A single focus (ball, puck):
    - Use of focus by players is the only way points are earned.
    - Focus must be on-field and/or in constant possession possession of players for play to continue.
    - Upon possession of focus, team becomes offense with no stop in play.
    - Focus is always put into play by offense.

An even field:
    - Oval, circle, rectangle.
    - Symmetrical on one axis.
    - Scoring zone on each end.
    - Flat, to put emphasis more on game than terrain.

A significant amount of physical effort required:
    - If all players are putting a decent effort, players will be required to run in order to make progress.
    - Only by acting on the focus can scores be made (throwing, kicking, swatting, running with)
    - Only energy created by players moves game forward.

Other traits:
    - Standardized mechanism of play.
    - Always no more than two teams.
    - Players are never eliminated from the game unless penalized.
    - Always an even amount of players from each team on field.
    - Artistry of participants does not go toward the score.

I'm prepared to defend each of those points, so have at me.


As for the recruiting aspect of this venture, I don't like it one bit. Recruiters try to reduce the distinctions between games and actual combat to prey on the kids that don't understand.

My friend recently had a recruiter ask him after a lengthy conversation. "Well, what's the difference between joining the Marines and Call of Duty?" I've had similar questions asked to me regarding flight and paintball.

The weak minded can fall into this trap easily, and those are not the kind of people I'd want fighting for this country anyway.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 10:34am

Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

If one looks at all the games that are globally considered as sports, they all have the following traits.

A single focus (ball, puck):
    - Use of focus by players is the only way points are earned.
    - Focus must be on-field and/or in constant possession possession of players for play to continue.
    - Upon possession of focus, team becomes offense with no stop in play.
    - Focus is always put into play by offense.

Track/running/racing events? No ball there.

Quote An even field:
    - Oval, circle, rectangle.
    - Symmetrical on one axis.
    - Scoring zone on each end.
    - Flat, to put emphasis more on game than terrain.

Cross-contry running?  Skiing?  Ski-jumping?  Gymnastics?

Quote
A significant amount of physical effort required:
    - If all players are putting a decent effort, players will be required to run in order to make progress.
    - Only by acting on the focus can scores be made (throwing, kicking, swatting, running with)
    - Only energy created by players moves game forward.

Competitive walking has no running.
Still assuming the need for this "focus".
Equestrian events use energy created by non-players, as do shooting events.

Quote
Other traits:
    - Always no more than two teams.
    - Players are never eliminated from the game unless penalized.
    - Always an even amount of players from each team on field.
    - Artistry of participants does not go toward the score.

Individual events (track et al) routinely have multiple "teams" competing simultaneously.
Several sports (golf, ski-jumping) have cutoffs where many players are eliminated without "penalty" at midpoints in the event.
Ice Hockey frequently has an uneven number of players from each team.  Baseball always does.  Some variants of soccer and other sports also vary the number of players at any given time.
I tend to agree on the artistry bit, but many/most people (including the IOC) believe that figure skating is a sport. 

Methinks that your multi-prong definition eliminated a sizeable chunk of what most people would consider "sports".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 10:36am
Track and running events still have a singular focus, the ending line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 10:38am

Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

Track and running events still have a singular focus, the ending line.

And how exactly do you "maintain possession" of the finish line?

Tolga clearly is describing an actual ball.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:

Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

If one looks at all the games that are globally considered as sports, they all have the following traits.

A single focus (ball, puck):
    - Use of focus by players is the only way points are earned.
    - Focus must be on-field and/or in constant possession possession of players for play to continue.
    - Upon possession of focus, team becomes offense with no stop in play.
    - Focus is always put into play by offense.

Track/running/racing events? No ball there.

Quote An even field:
    - Oval, circle, rectangle.
    - Symmetrical on one axis.
    - Scoring zone on each end.
    - Flat, to put emphasis more on game than terrain.

Cross-contry running?  Skiing?  Ski-jumping?  Gymnastics?

Quote
A significant amount of physical effort required:
    - If all players are putting a decent effort, players will be required to run in order to make progress.
    - Only by acting on the focus can scores be made (throwing, kicking, swatting, running with)
    - Only energy created by players moves game forward.

Competitive walking has no running.
Still assuming the need for this "focus".
Equestrian events use energy created by non-players, as do shooting events.

Quote
Other traits:
    - Always no more than two teams.
    - Players are never eliminated from the game unless penalized.
    - Always an even amount of players from each team on field.
    - Artistry of participants does not go toward the score.

Individual events (track et al) routinely have multiple "teams" competing simultaneously.
Several sports (golf, ski-jumping) have cutoffs where many players are eliminated without "penalty" at midpoints in the event.
Ice Hockey frequently has an uneven number of players from each team.  Baseball always does.  Some variants of soccer and other sports also vary the number of players at any given time.
I tend to agree on the artistry bit, but many/most people (including the IOC) believe that figure skating is a sport. 

Methinks that your multi-prong definition eliminated a sizeable chunk of what most people would consider "sports".



Every game/activity you just mentioned is not universally recognized as sport, and that's where I believe the distinction lies between sport and game.

You might as well call any game a sport if you're willing to rule out most of the distinctions I put up. If so, why then would you argue over the name if all competition is the same to you?

Nobody argues that soccer, basketball, handball, hockey, rugby, tennis, water polo, or volleyball aren't sports. Nobody would ever rule those games out as non-sports.

However, not everyone agrees that baseball, or skiing, or anything else you mentioned are sports. The same people that call chess a sport would not necessarily call auto racing a sport. However, pretty much everybody from all those fields would not argue that the games I listed in the previous paragraph are not sports.

In terms of semantics and definitions, majority rule and impression is what defines the meaning and use of words. For words that describe a group, the categories that fall under said words are usually very similar to each other.

Most games/hobbies/activities fall out of the realm of universally accepted sports, and thus would not be defined under the term sport.

As for hockey, players leave the ice (as with most other games) for one of three reasons: Penalties, Injuries, and Dissensions. There is no mechanism of legal play that boots opposing players from the field in that fashion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by RoninGames RoninGames wrote:

I think there is another thing to look at here. Yes, it's a nice little cheap entry level marker. I wish this was out when I bought my first entry level marker. I wound up with a JT Tac-5 Camo. And let me tell you, that is a peice of crap. This, because it's a Tippy, I know is made much better.

 

Now look at the mil-sim look of this little marker. It looks very much like the current M-16 that the military uses. One thing that is happening in some military and law enforcement areas is the use of Paintball in as a trainning tool.

Becuase this is cheap to buy, more departments can afford to buy a number of them.

 

Yes, I know there is simunition rounds. However, the problem with those is that, to the best of my knowlage, they are only avalibe in small cal. rounds. Such as the 9mm. There is no simunition round for a 5.56 NATO round. Mostly because the round is traveling at such a high rate of speed, that it would shatter when fired.

 

So, if Tippmann worked with the US Army to make a marker that our troops can use to better their skills so they have a better chance to stay alive. Then figured that the same marker can be sold to the public. Good for them.



False. I have shot, and been shot with, 5.56mm simunition. They even have it belt fed for light machineguns. It's quite handy actually; no longer any need to swap out upper receivers.

That said, paintball is loads cheaper, much easier to run safely in force on force scenarios, and easier to template safe training ranges for, so your mention of military training is still valid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:34pm

Footraces and cross-country skiing are not sports?

Where are the people that think these are not sports?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by RoninGames RoninGames wrote:

I think there is another thing to look at here. Yes, it's a nice little cheap entry level marker. I wish this was out when I bought my first entry level marker. I wound up with a JT Tac-5 Camo. And let me tell you, that is a peice of crap. This, because it's a Tippy, I know is made much better.

 

Now look at the mil-sim look of this little marker. It looks very much like the current M-16 that the military uses. One thing that is happening in some military and law enforcement areas is the use of Paintball in as a trainning tool.

Becuase this is cheap to buy, more departments can afford to buy a number of them.

 

Yes, I know there is simunition rounds. However, the problem with those is that, to the best of my knowlage, they are only avalibe in small cal. rounds. Such as the 9mm. There is no simunition round for a 5.56 NATO round. Mostly because the round is traveling at such a high rate of speed, that it would shatter when fired.

 

So, if Tippmann worked with the US Army to make a marker that our troops can use to better their skills so they have a better chance to stay alive. Then figured that the same marker can be sold to the public. Good for them.



False. I have shot, and been shot with, 5.56mm simunition. They even have it belt fed for light machineguns. It's quite handy actually; no longer any need to swap out upper receivers.

That said, paintball is loads cheaper, much easier to run safely in force on force scenarios, and easier to template safe training ranges for, so your mention of military training is still valid.

I would not want to use paintball as a training tool. Even the most accurate M16 milsim paintball marker handles completely different than the real weapon. I would use sim rounds over paintball rounds any day of the week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

If one looks at all the games that are globally considered as sports, they all have the following traits.

A single focus (ball, puck):
    - Use of focus by players is the only way points are earned.
    - Focus must be on-field and/or in constant possession possession of players for play to continue.
    - Upon possession of focus, team becomes offense with no stop in play.
    - Focus is always put into play by offense.

An even field:
    - Oval, circle, rectangle.
    - Symmetrical on one axis.
    - Scoring zone on each end.
    - Flat, to put emphasis more on game than terrain.

A significant amount of physical effort required:
    - If all players are putting a decent effort, players will be required to run in order to make progress.
    - Only by acting on the focus can scores be made (throwing, kicking, swatting, running with)
    - Only energy created by players moves game forward.

Other traits:
    - Standardized mechanism of play.
    - Always no more than two teams.
    - Players are never eliminated from the game unless penalized.
    - Always an even amount of players from each team on field.
    - Artistry of participants does not go toward the score.

I'm prepared to defend each of those points, so have at me.


As for the recruiting aspect of this venture, I don't like it one bit. Recruiters try to reduce the distinctions between games and actual combat to prey on the kids that don't understand.

My friend recently had a recruiter ask him after a lengthy conversation. "Well, what's the difference between joining the Marines and Call of Duty?" I've had similar questions asked to me regarding flight and paintball.

The weak minded can fall into this trap easily, and those are not the kind of people I'd want fighting for this country anyway.





Are you saying it is or isn't a sport? I'm pretty sure the only thing paintball doesn't have on that list is a single ball.

Running and whatever else was mentioned is a sport. If it's in the olympics it is a "universally" recognized sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 3:16pm

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

  If it's in the olympics it is a "universally" recognized sport.

I'm not sure I am ready to go that far, although IOC blessing certainly carries a fair amount of weight.

Not everybody would consider curling a sport, for instance, or air rifle.

Also curious how people feel about strongman contests and competitive eaters...?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 3:26pm
Strongman, definitely a sport.

I'll agree with competitive eating, because I'm fat. There is no way I in hell I could anywhere near that much or fast.
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