Political Discussion

Explain the differance in 'Promote the General Welfare' as stated in the Constitution as a role of government, and 'Provide the General Welfare' as the current trend in government sees it.

I see the differance as Government providing the means for the individual to succeed ie education, and private enterprise and support, not government providing financial assistance on the backs of others who follow the Promote model. Earning a 'entitlement' or being forced into a situation (ill or injured) is quite differant than 3rd generation welfare reciepiants because they know nothing better.

The US OTR Trucking industry is 600,000 drivers short of providing the full services in transportation of goods, call any trucking company, if you are breathing you are hired at approx starts 0f $35K plus with free training, and still the number remains the same. Sacrifice (ie time away from home) for a goal is too foriegn to many, when I trained drivers for Werner/US Express/Crete Carriers I knew when Joey Spoiledbutt was quiting, right after the third or fourth I miss you call from momma, and the living in a closet frustration of poor Joey.

Edited by oldsoldier - 11 December 2009 at 3:26pm

Show me numerical evidence of 3rd generation welfare recipients, and I'll keep listening.

Well, we shouldn't assume that the two are mutually exclusive. It's possible to promote via providing, as they do with education, law enforcement, etc.

It's also important to note that the general welfare is the welfare of the society. No doubt the welfare of a society is inversely related to the crime rate. By providing for less-privileged, crime is generally reduced.

Moreover, society benefits from a population that is generally affluent. If those welfare recipients are no longer recipients at some random time, not only will they have virtually no chance of integrating into society as a productive person, they will likely become more of a detractor because society will either have to deal with the crimes being committed to survive or pay for what will be a failed attempt at rehabilitation.

Also, point of clarification, I don't think many right-minded people advocate unconditional welfare support for just anyone. If you are arguing against that, you won't find much opposition unless one party misunderstands the other.

Wow, 7.5% of current recipients are third generation recipients.

So, 92.5% aren't.  Perhaps we should pick a number to focus on here.

I'm not saying our welfare system isn't broken.  It is, and like many parts of our government, it needs a rework.  Frankly, I'll take added welfare costs over people tapping my phones.

That is not 7.5% on welfare higher than the unemployment rate.

That is 7.5% of the unemployed/on welfare.

It isn't a sense of entitlement that is the government's fault. It is solely the fault of lazy bums who see it as an easy way to make money/health insurance.

You blame the government, I blame the person abusing the system.

oldsoldier wrote: when I trained drivers for Werner

I've never had a bad experience with a driver from werner. They are usually very nice and very helpful, even if they usually bring the stuff that sucks to unload. Cabinets and what not.

Also, exaggerate much?

I doubt there was ever artillery hitting a project in NYC.

I think your concept of NYC projects is based upon movies.

oldsoldier wrote: The concept- DMZ: two armed parties (Police and Gangs/Criminals) staring at each other across a agreed defined line of no aggressive action. Walk any project anywhere you will immediately be able to ID where the DMZ (Police Slang) is. Interesting that many missed the concept....and immediately went to literal. So far no artillery has been thrown across the DMZ between the Korea's either, just the occasional illegal crossing, a few rounds or axe handles exchanged, and the tunneling (several found)by the North.

This exists only in your imagination.

I know a lot of cops from Newark, Trenton, and Camden, who would like to disagree with you.

Also, everything doesn't have to have a metaphor.  The creation of a metaphor for everything (especially wars) is just a way to put on blinders and ignore the facts about the situation.

jmac3 wrote: Bolt3 wrote: I think your concept of NYC projects is based upon movies.