Hypocrisy (Warning--Health Care Thread)--updated |
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oldpbnoob
Platinum Member Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma Joined: 04 February 2008 Location: Yankee Stadium Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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As it is, our insurance costs have gone already over the past few years. When my wife started 8 years or so ago, our entire insurance costs were covered. Now we are paying a couple of hundred dollars a month AND having to take a policy where we are out a significantly higher out of pocket amount. We were already discussing whether or not we would change our policy to the even higher deductible policy to lower our monthy costs. If I am booted off of this policy, our costs will go up even more, which I seriously think may be a possibility. My wife is going to call when she gets back into town to see if the person that handles the insurance has some insight to this.
It's really easy to say that nothing will change, but some very smart people seem to be unsure of exactly how all this will play out. I hope it does work out, but If I have to start paying higher insurance premiums because I have to get my own policy and I have to pay higher taxes, things are going to seriously suck. I thing some serious reprecussions on the economy could be ahead.
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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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FreeEnterprise
Moderator Group Not a card-carrying member of the DNC Joined: 14 October 2008 Location: Trails Of Doom Status: Offline Points: 4910 |
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If it does, you can now effectively blame BUSH...
And since we are all laughing about this, here is another funny group of clips... Edited by FreeEnterprise - 29 June 2012 at 10:40am |
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They tremble at my name...
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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Everything I'm reading is pointing to you being the same as far as plan structure goes, OPBN. From what I'm reading, the "public option" carries an opt-in ability if you either have been denied or would be denied coverage due to existing conditions OR cannot afford a plan in your existing situation. "You" being your family can afford to be covered, so it doesn't seem like any opt-in provisions open up. Again, most of the stuff I'm reading is in legalize, in which I have no formal training in, so salt, grains, etc.
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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I'm honestly much more interested in having a discussion on here about the actual working components of the act than getting into it about abortions and birth control, because the former is legitimately interesting, as far as potential ramifications economically and culturally go. The latter frankly a worthless conversation, so I don't think I'll partake. |
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FreeEnterprise
Moderator Group Not a card-carrying member of the DNC Joined: 14 October 2008 Location: Trails Of Doom Status: Offline Points: 4910 |
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I know how old most of you are, it isn't a slam on your intelligence, it is just a point about your life experience. I have more than you, I've watched this "game" play out and the people like us always end up paying higher costs.
I remember paying $4,000 a year for my family healthcare in 2001. Today I pay over $21,000 a year... Oldpbnoob has kids and is in my same age range, he has watched his rates go up (or his employer has absorbed those increases and he hasn't seen it) but if Obamacare stands, it will be the largest tax increase in the history of the world. Employers won't cover that increase... They can't afford to without raising their product costs, and do you really want to pay MORE for everything you buy? That will have ECONOMIC implications, no matter what happens politically. You think times are hard now... Dump a TRILLION in new taxes on the back of the economy, and you will see a whole new level of hurt. I sold my luxury van and bought a 99 jetta for cash... I've paid off all my debt, (and most of my house) and I'm getting ready for the economic mess that will be here before we know it. I've even taken my retirement money out of the stock market... I hope and pray I am wrong, but it could easily go either way right now. What do you guys think of this? |
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They tremble at my name...
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stratoaxe
Platinum Member And my axe... Joined: 21 May 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6839 |
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I like the way you always pretend like the inhabitants of this board are naive kids who have yet to experience society. Here's a pro tip-most of us are college / post college aged working males struggling through the worst economic conditions in recent memory. We're well aware of political fallout. |
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FreeEnterprise
Moderator Group Not a card-carrying member of the DNC Joined: 14 October 2008 Location: Trails Of Doom Status: Offline Points: 4910 |
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Wow, that was funny... Good luck with that. I see a future filled with LOTS of insurance increases... Because giving out free abortions/birth control/medicine/covering your kids till they are 26 is always "free". AMIRITE! And everything the government runs is efficient and low cost... When reality hits you guys, it will hurt...
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They tremble at my name...
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mbro
Moderator Group Original Forum Gangster Joined: 11 June 2002 Location: Isle Of Man Status: Offline Points: 10750 |
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OPBN, your insurance shouldn't change.That's weird that your wife's company doesn't just offer coverage for spouses I figured that was standard procedure. Isn't she a teacher?
Also the insurance exchanges are what you'd be looking at since you're not poor or high risk, the pool thing you were talking about was a temporary thing for people who have pre-existing conditions before the law goes fully in effect. The exchanges are basically a website and a phone line that will make buying insurance easier and explains the terms to you. It allows comparison shopping. |
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
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stratoaxe
Platinum Member And my axe... Joined: 21 May 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6839 |
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This really didn't change anything regarding tax laws...Congress has, traditionally, been given basically unlimited power regarding taxation. But raising taxes is a tough pill to swallow in this economy so they (wrongly) chose to push it as a mandate instead. The government can't force you to take insurance but they can tax you and spend the money where they want to.
That's been an issue raised since the bill was introduced. Edited by stratoaxe - 28 June 2012 at 9:40pm |
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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Ohh. Gotcha. I have no idea. That's an interesting question to which I do not have an answer. As the "public pool" exists more as subsidies funding to allow people to affordably purchase private insurance rather than a Medicare substitute (Much to the chagrin of fans of universal healthcare programs), I'd imagine not, but I'm not going to pretend like I know for sure.
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oldpbnoob
Platinum Member Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma Joined: 04 February 2008 Location: Yankee Stadium Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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I'm not sure there will be a change, then. Spousal insurance still exists, as do parent/child plans.
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oldpbnoob
Platinum Member Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma Joined: 04 February 2008 Location: Yankee Stadium Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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I"ll be curious how this effects me. Could be wrong, but it sounds like I just got stuck with more taxes to pay for insurance for those that don't have it. I am also wondering how this will affect our current coverage. Currently, we take my wifes insurance plan at her job. Every year I have to send a letter stating that I am taking their coverage because my job doesnt offer insurance, which they don't. Doesnt the passing of this essentially make a public option available? If so, I wonder if this will count as available coverage from another source and I will now get thrown into the public pool? Will this public insurance pool actually be real insurance or some sort of crappy Medicare type coverage? And at what cost? Considering I have a family history of cancer and exceedingly high cholesterol levels, any insurance I get on my own is typically not going to be cheap. I get the sneaking suspicion that I will now have to pay more for my own insurance AND get to pay more in taxes to cover the costs for others.
Good day! Edited by oldpbnoob - 28 June 2012 at 8:20pm |
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"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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I could very well be wrong, as I've not read the whole thing yet, but IIRC the "tax" comes from the ability of the law to levy a tax for those wishing to not partake in the insurance purchase mandate. It wasn't as much of treating the whole bill as a tax, but rather treating the opt-out mechanic of the bill as a tax for the purposes of determining constitutionality. Edited by agentwhale007 - 28 June 2012 at 7:59pm |
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Linus
Platinum Member Strike 1 - language 6.29.10 Joined: 10 November 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7908 |
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It very much was upheld 'as a tax' in the opinions since Obama's lawyers couldn't decide if it was or wasn't during arguments and finally decided it was. Supreme Court said it can NOT fall under the "Commerce Clause", and that the federal government cannot force you to partake in commerce if you don't want to. The worrisome part is now, what CAN'T the feds force you to get with the guise of "if you don't, you'll be taxed"? Yeah... not really looking forward to the day where half my check is taken out in the form of taxes, like much of Europe. |
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deadeye007
Moderator Group Has Mod powers, isn't able to use them. Joined: 12 June 2002 Location: Your Face Status: Offline Points: 13822 |
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I only heard bits and pieces as the day went on, but I was of the understanding that the Supreme Court did not uphold Obamacare by reviewing it and finding it legal. I thought they looked at it, and decided by design it qualifies as a tax so they don't have jurisdiction (for a lack of a better term) on regulating taxes.
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Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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I don't recall voting on the members of the Supreme Court.
Not quite. Granted, I've not gotten through the whole decision yet.
Edited by agentwhale007 - 28 June 2012 at 4:39pm |
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Benjichang
Moderator Group I pwned Leroy Jenkins! Joined: 03 January 2004 Location: Ohiya Status: Offline Points: 12618 |
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Still happens now anyway.
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irc.esper.net #paintball |
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stratoaxe
Platinum Member And my axe... Joined: 21 May 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6839 |
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The decision genuinely surprised me. I would have bet large amounts of money on it being 5-4 against.
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RoboCop
Moderator Group Aw man, my butt is rusted... Joined: 06 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5196 |
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http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/06/28/obamacare-upheld-how-health-care-reform-will-affect-your-wallet/
If this is an accurate representation of what is going on, then I don't see how it is a bad thing. |
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