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Hypocrisy (Warning--Health Care Thread)--updated

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oldpbnoob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 11:35am
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

OPBN, your insurance shouldn't change.That's weird that your wife's company doesn't just offer coverage for spouses I figured that was standard procedure. Isn't she a teacher?

Also the insurance exchanges are what you'd be looking at since you're not poor or high risk, the pool thing you were talking about was a temporary thing for people who have pre-existing conditions before the law goes fully in effect. The exchanges are basically a website and a phone line that will make buying insurance easier and explains the terms to you. It allows comparison shopping.
I'm not so sure about that TBH. My wife works for the local school system and we take the insurance offered. Under the policy that they brought in a couple of years ago, they only will allow me on the plan if I either have no insurance under my employer or the insurance offered by my employer is considered an unreasonable burden. In other words, if my employer did offer insurance, but paid no part of it and cost $1k/month, it would be considered unreasonable and they allow me to stay on the plan. During the transition, one of her co-workers husbands had to be taken off of her policy and take the insurance offered by his company.
 
As it is, our insurance costs have gone already over the past few years. When my wife started 8 years or so ago, our entire insurance costs were covered. Now we are paying a couple of hundred dollars a month AND having to take a policy where we are out a significantly higher out of pocket amount. We were already discussing whether or not we would change our policy to the even higher deductible policy to lower our monthy costs. If I am booted off of this policy, our costs will go up even more, which I seriously think may be a possibility. My wife is going to call when she gets back into town to see if the person that handles the insurance has some insight to this.
 
It's really easy to say that nothing will change, but some very smart people seem to be unsure of exactly how all this will play out. I hope it does work out, but If I have to start paying higher insurance premiums because I have to get my own policy and I have to pay higher taxes, things are going to seriously suck. I thing some serious reprecussions on the economy could be ahead.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 10:16am
If it does, you can now effectively blame BUSH...










LOL




And since we are all laughing about this, here is another funny group of clips...




Edited by FreeEnterprise - 29 June 2012 at 10:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 9:56am
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

OPBN, your insurance shouldn't change.

Everything I'm reading is pointing to you being the same as far as plan structure goes, OPBN. From what I'm reading, the "public option" carries an opt-in ability if you either have been denied or would be denied coverage due to existing conditions OR cannot afford a plan in your existing situation. "You" being your family can afford to be covered, so it doesn't seem like any opt-in provisions open up. 

Again, most of the stuff I'm reading is in legalize, in which I have no formal training in, so salt, grains, etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 9:49am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

 We're well aware of political fallout.

I'm honestly much more interested in having a discussion on here about the actual working components of the act than getting into it about abortions and birth control, because the former is legitimately interesting, as far as potential ramifications economically and culturally go. The latter frankly a worthless conversation, so I don't think I'll partake. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 9:47am
I know how old most of you are, it isn't a slam on your intelligence, it is just a point about your life experience. I have more than you, I've watched this "game" play out and the people like us always end up paying higher costs. 

I remember paying $4,000 a year for my family healthcare in 2001. 

Today I pay over $21,000 a year...


Oldpbnoob has kids and is in my same age range, he has watched his rates go up (or his employer has absorbed those increases and he hasn't seen it) but if Obamacare stands, it will be the largest tax increase in the history of the world. Employers won't cover that increase... They can't afford to without raising their product costs, and do you really want to pay MORE for everything you buy?

That will have ECONOMIC implications, no matter what happens politically. You think times are hard now... Dump a TRILLION in new taxes on the back of the economy, and you will see a whole new level of hurt. 

I sold my luxury van and bought a 99 jetta for cash... I've paid off all my debt, (and most of my house) and I'm getting ready for the economic mess that will be here before we know it. I've even taken my retirement money out of the stock market... I hope and pray I am wrong, but it could easily go either way right now.





What do you guys think of this?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 8:37am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

[QUOTE=mbro>OPBN, your insurance shouldn't change.[/QUOTE>
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">LOLLOLWink
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">Wow, that was funny... Good luck with that. I see a future filled with LOTS of insurance increases... Because giving out free abortions/birth control/medicine/covering your kids till they are 26 is always "free". AMIRITE!<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
And everything the government runs is efficient and  low cost...


LOL
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">When reality hits you guys, it will hurt...



I like the way you always pretend like the inhabitants of this board are naive kids who have yet to experience society.

Here's a pro tip-most of us are college / post college aged working males struggling through the worst economic conditions in recent memory. We're well aware of political fallout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 8:09am
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

OPBN, your insurance shouldn't change.



LOLLOLWink


Wow, that was funny... Good luck with that. I see a future filled with LOTS of insurance increases... Because giving out free abortions/birth control/medicine/covering your kids till they are 26 is always "free". AMIRITE!

And everything the government runs is efficient and  low cost...


LOL


When reality hits you guys, it will hurt...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 4:55am
OPBN, your insurance shouldn't change.That's weird that your wife's company doesn't just offer coverage for spouses I figured that was standard procedure. Isn't she a teacher?

Also the insurance exchanges are what you'd be looking at since you're not poor or high risk, the pool thing you were talking about was a temporary thing for people who have pre-existing conditions before the law goes fully in effect. The exchanges are basically a website and a phone line that will make buying insurance easier and explains the terms to you. It allows comparison shopping.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 9:39pm
This really didn't change anything regarding tax laws...Congress has, traditionally, been given basically unlimited power regarding taxation. But raising taxes is a tough pill to swallow in this economy so they (wrongly) chose to push it as a mandate instead. The government can't force you to take insurance but they can tax you and spend the money where they want to.

That's been an issue raised since the bill was introduced.

Edited by stratoaxe - 28 June 2012 at 9:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I am also wondering how this will affect our current coverage. Currently, we take my wifes insurance plan at her job. Every year I have to send a letter stating that I am taking their coverage because my job doesnt offer insurance, which they don't. 
 

I'm not sure there will be a change, then. Spousal insurance still exists, as do parent/child plans. 
Yes, but the only reason the insurance company agrees to accept me on the policy is because I do not have an insurance option elsewhere. Will a public pool option count as an available option?

Ohh. Gotcha. 

I have no idea. That's an interesting question to which I do not have an answer. As the "public pool" exists more as subsidies funding to allow people to affordably purchase private insurance rather than a Medicare substitute (Much to the chagrin of fans of universal healthcare programs), I'd imagine not, but I'm not going to pretend like I know for sure. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I am also wondering how this will affect our current coverage. Currently, we take my wifes insurance plan at her job. Every year I have to send a letter stating that I am taking their coverage because my job doesnt offer insurance, which they don't. 
 

I'm not sure there will be a change, then. Spousal insurance still exists, as do parent/child plans. 
Yes, but the only reason the insurance company agrees to accept me on the policy is because I do not have an insurance option elsewhere. Will a public pool option count as an available option?
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I am also wondering how this will affect our current coverage. Currently, we take my wifes insurance plan at her job. Every year I have to send a letter stating that I am taking their coverage because my job doesnt offer insurance, which they don't. 
 

I'm not sure there will be a change, then. Spousal insurance still exists, as do parent/child plans. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:18pm
I"ll be curious how this effects me. Could be wrong, but it sounds like I just got stuck with more taxes to pay for insurance for those that don't have it. I am also wondering how this will affect our current coverage. Currently, we take my wifes insurance plan at her job. Every year I have to send a letter stating that I am taking their coverage because my job doesnt offer insurance, which they don't. Doesnt the passing of this essentially make a public option available? If so, I wonder if this will count as available coverage from another source and I will now get thrown into the public pool? Will this public insurance pool actually be real insurance or some sort of crappy Medicare type coverage? And at what cost? Considering I have a family history of cancer and exceedingly high cholesterol levels, any insurance I get on my own is typically not going to be cheap.  I get the sneaking suspicion that I will now have to pay more for my own insurance AND get to pay more in taxes to cover the costs for others.
 
Good day!


Edited by oldpbnoob - 28 June 2012 at 8:20pm
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by deadeye007 deadeye007 wrote:

I thought they looked at it, and decided by design it qualifies as a tax so they don't have jurisdiction (for a lack of a better term) on regulating taxes.

I could very well be wrong, as I've not read the whole thing yet, but IIRC the "tax" comes from the ability of the law to levy a tax for those wishing to not partake in the insurance purchase mandate. It wasn't as much of treating the whole bill as a tax, but rather treating the opt-out mechanic of the bill as a tax for the purposes of determining constitutionality. 





Edited by agentwhale007 - 28 June 2012 at 7:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:



Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Why outrage, the American people elected him...

I don't recall voting on the members of the Supreme Court. 

Quote  it was upheld AS A TAX. 

Not quite. 

Granted, I've not gotten through the whole decision yet. 



It very much was upheld 'as a tax' in the opinions since Obama's lawyers couldn't decide if it was or wasn't during arguments and finally decided it was. Supreme Court said it can NOT fall under the "Commerce Clause", and that the federal government cannot force you to partake in commerce if you don't want to.


The worrisome part is now, what CAN'T the feds force you to get with the guise of "if you don't, you'll be taxed"?


Yeah... not really looking forward to the day where half my check is taken out in the form of taxes, like much of Europe.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 7:38pm
I only heard bits and pieces as the day went on, but I was of the understanding that the Supreme Court did not uphold Obamacare by reviewing it and finding it legal. I thought they looked at it, and decided by design it qualifies as a tax so they don't have jurisdiction (for a lack of a better term) on regulating taxes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Why outrage, the American people elected him...

I don't recall voting on the members of the Supreme Court. 

Quote  it was upheld AS A TAX. 

Not quite. 

Granted, I've not gotten through the whole decision yet. 


Edited by agentwhale007 - 28 June 2012 at 4:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:

Sometimes people need to pay taxes in order for other people who don't pay taxes to have nice things.


Fixed


Still happens now anyway.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 3:44pm
The decision genuinely surprised me. I would have bet large amounts of money on it being 5-4 against.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2012 at 2:47pm
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/06/28/obamacare-upheld-how-health-care-reform-will-affect-your-wallet/

If this is an accurate representation of what is going on, then I don't see how it is a bad thing.
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