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USAF Dons *Flame Suit*, Flame Defense +12!

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    Posted: 15 June 2010 at 8:40pm
*













*Flame suit solely for my protection from the unavoidable flame war sure to happen between members of this forum.







http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/15/obama-to-detail-oil-spill-response-in-speech-tonight/?hpt=C1


Originally posted by him him wrote:

Already I've issued a six-month moratorium on deepwater drilling. I know this creates difficulty for the people who work on these rigs, but for the sake of their safety and for the sake of the entire region, we need to know the facts before we allow deepwater drilling to continue.






I for one, think this is stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2010 at 8:47pm

/Waits for the fun to begin.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2010 at 8:58pm

From what I am understanding, the issue arose during the actual drilling process. If he is calling for a temporary halt on all deep well DRILLING activities, I kind of agree. Seems until they can inspect and insure that everything is being done correctly and the same shortcuts that caused the current catastrophe aren't being taken at other drilling operations, this would be logical.. It isn't calling for a stop to currently drilled and functioning wells to stop producing, just stopping current drilling. Or am I misunderstaning the process? if I am understanding it correctly, what the bid deal? It doesn't affect current supply/demand as it hasn't been tapped yet and doesn't account for production figures. Right?

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heh, drilled
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This is why we need the scientific community to stop suppressing free energy ron paul 2012 nibiru evil reptilian space jews.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 12:57am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

From what I am understanding, the issue arose during the actual drilling process. If he is calling for a temporary halt on all deep well DRILLING activities, I kind of agree. Seems until they can inspect and insure that everything is being done correctly and the same shortcuts that caused the current catastrophe aren't being taken at other drilling operations, this would be logical.. It isn't calling for a stop to currently drilled and functioning wells to stop producing, just stopping current drilling. Or am I misunderstaning the process? if I am understanding it correctly, what the bid deal? It doesn't affect current supply/demand as it hasn't been tapped yet and doesn't account for production figures. Right?



The Senate hearings have pretty much nailed down the fact that BP broke multiple rules with this well. Exxon's CEO went on record saying that the way BP conducted this operation was so screwed up, that you wouldn't have seen some wildcatter back in the 1800's doing anything nearly as stupid as they did. This all comes down to someone getting yelled at for a project taking too long/costing too much due to the extreme circumstances in which the well was being drilled, and decided to cut all the corners to get the job done faster and cheaper. It has nothing to do with drilling and everything to do with the corporate culture of the US.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 1:52am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

...
It has nothing to do with drilling and everything to do with the corporate culture of the US.


I despise the "to hell with doing it right, get it done ASAP" mentality that nearly all people in management have. My current boss is a nice guy but he runs these sites that were bought off of other people, had code generated by other programs, or the work done was outsourced to india. In all cases, the code is horrendous, the sites barely work (with plenty of bugs), and most parts look very unprofessional. Because of that, maintaining this stuff is a nightmare and simple modifications can take forever, making him impatient. It's to the point where I can (and have) completely redone certain pages rather than simply adding to them because it would take about just as much time and would produce a better result.

The reason I bring this up is because I worry that this stuff, though it may be invisible to the general public, is all over the place in all industries. I've seen it everywhere I have worked so far and hear about it from plenty of other people in different industries. It's scary that all people in management seem to be retarded. It's like it's part of the job description or something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 7:44am
What candidate received the most money from BP during the elections?
 
Oilbama
 
What rig got a safety award in 2009, during the Oilbama administration?
 
Deepwater horizon leased by BP
 
What rig passed safety inspections 3 times last year?
 
Deepwater horizon leased by BP
 
Who is responsible for having 10 fire booms on the gulf according to law, but didn't?
 
Oilbama
 
Who is not going to let this crisis go to waste, and now will impose new taxes, and more restricitons, regardless of what it does to our economy?
 
Oilbama
 
Who says he was there since day 1, and yet wasn't?
 
Oilbama
 
This Oilbamageddon is what happens when you elect a community organizer, and academic. His only ability is to have meetings and get people to say what he wants, while he manipulates facts, and forces through laws that fit his agenda. While getting cozy with special interests, to get what he wanted (elected) then throwing those same "greedy" business owners to the curb when an accident occurs.
 
 
And 40% of BP is owned by Americans in their 401k plans...
 
What is Oilbama's agenda?
 
Taking money from those greedy business owners and giving it to government, regardless of the long term or short term impacts.
 
This is change alright.
 
 
 
And all of this because we are drilling at depths never drilled before... Because of the leftist enviromentalists who forced them away from the shallow water where it is easy to fix a well if this happens. The same enviromentalists who won't let us drill on the ground... again, another easy place to fix if they were allowed to drill there.
 
So typical of the left, force change, change makes things work worse, or more dangerous... Then blame the guy you forced to go into a dangerous situation to make his living...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 7:51am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
Who is responsible for having 10 fire booms on the gulf according to law, but didn't?
I'll ask again where you are getting this info? I have asked before, to please cite the "law" that you have referenced. Back it up or stop throwing it around. All I ever found was a "report" with a "recommendation", I have yet to see a "law" as you have stated over and over again.
 
Citation or shens.
 
Oh, also provide proof that Bush or any other president was adhering to this law you speak of.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 16 June 2010 at 7:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tical3.0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 7:54am
And so it starts...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 8:35am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
Who is responsible for having 10 fire booms on the gulf according to law, but didn't?
I'll ask again where you are getting this info? I have asked before, to please cite the "law" that you have referenced. Back it up or stop throwing it around. All I ever found was a "report" with a "recommendation", I have yet to see a "law" as you have stated over and over again.
 
Citation or shens.
 
Oh, also provide proof that Bush or any other president was adhering to this law you speak of.
 
 
 
see page three GWB executive order... And executive orders are law. This executive order required a plan in case of a disaster of this sort. The plan is above, the law requiring it is below.
 
 
 

(3) The functions vested in the President by Section 311(j)(5) of FWPCA and Section 4202(b)(4) of OPA, respecting the issuance of regulations requiring the owners or operators of offshore facilities, including associated pipelines, other than deepwater ports subject to the DPA, to prepare and submit response plans, the approval of means to ensure the availability of private personnel and equipment, the review and approval of such response plans, and the authorization of offshore facilities, including associated pipelines, other than deepwater ports subject to the DPA, to operate without approved response plans, are delegated to the Secretary of the Interior.

(e)(1) The functions vested in the President by Section 311(j)(6)(B) of FWPCA, respecting the requirements for periodic inspections of containment booms and equipment used to remove discharges at non-transportation-related onshore facilities, are delegated to the Administrator.

(2) The functions vested in the President by Section 311(j)(6)(A) of FWPCA, respecting the requirements for periodic inspections of containment booms and equipment used to remove discharges on vessels, and at transportation-related onshore facilities and deepwater ports subject to the DPA, are delegated to the Secretary of Transportation.

Here are the EPA Guidelines (or regulations) referenced in the above law
 
 
 
 
 
 
aaaaand here are the regulations required by the above law...
 
 
 
 
 
And then you have this The clean water act EPA section 309
 
(d) National Contingency Plan.
   (1) Preparation by President. The President shall prepare and publish a National Contingency Plan for removal of oil and hazardous substances pursuant to this section.
   (2) Contents. The National Contingency Plan shall provide for efficient, coordinated, and effective action to minimize damage from oil and hazardous substance discharges, including containment, dispersal, and removal of oil and hazardous substances, and shall include, but not be limited to, the following:
      (A) Assignment of duties and responsibilities among Federal departments and agencies in coordination with State and local agencies and port authorities including, but not limited to, water pollution control and conservation and trusteeship of natural resources (including conservation of fish and wildlife).
      (B) Identification, procurement, maintenance, and storage of equipment and supplies.
      (C) Establishment or designation of Coast Guard strike teams, consisting of--
         (i) personnel who shall be trained, prepared, and available to provide necessary services to carry out the National Contingency Plan;
         (ii) adequate oil and hazardous substance pollution control equipment and material; and
         (iii) a detailed oil and hazardous substance pollution and prevention plan, including measures to protect fisheries and wildlife.
      (D) A system of surveillance and notice designed to safeguard against as well as ensure earliest possible notice of discharges of oil and hazardous substances and imminent threats of such discharges to the appropriate State and Federal agencies.
      (E) Establishment of a national center to provide coordination and direction for operations in carrying out the Plan.
      (F) Procedures and techniques to be employed in identifying, containing, dispersing, and removing oil and hazardous substances.
      (G) A schedule, prepared in cooperation with the States, identifying--
         (i) dispersants, other chemicals, and other spill mitigating devices and substances, if any, that may be used in carrying out the Plan,
         (ii) the waters in which such dispersants, other chemicals, and other spill mitigating devices and substances may be used, and
         (iii) the quantities of such dispersant, other chemicals, or other spill mitigating device or substance which can be used safely in such waters, which schedule shall provide in the case of any dispersant, chemical, spill mitigating device or substance, or waters not specifically identified in such schedule that the President, or his delegate, may, on a case-by-case basis, identify the dispersants, other chemicals, and other spill mitigating devices and substances which may be used, the waters in which they may be used, and the quantities which can be used safely in such waters.
      (H) A system whereby the State or States affected by a discharge of oil or hazardous substance may act where necessary to remove such discharge and such State or States may be reimbursed in accordance with the Oil Pollution Act of 1990, in the case of any discharge of oil from a vessel or facility, for the reasonable costs incurred for that removal, from the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund.
      (I) Establishment of criteria and procedures to ensure immediate and effective Federal identification of, and response to, a discharge, or the threat of a discharge, that results in a substantial threat to the public health or welfare of the United States, as required under subsection (c)(2).
      (J) Establishment of procedures and standards for removing a worst case discharge of oil, and for mitigating or preventing a substantial threat of such a discharge.
 
 
 
 
Clearly they were to burn the spill without even having to notify the federal government... But, there were no fire booms, hence they couldn't start until they got one... And by then the winds had changed, and the spill got progressively worse. This was an administration failure in FEDERAL waters, and the finger pointing all goes back to Oilbama...
 
Good thing he didn't let the other countries who offered their help in the first week to come... Because that would have meant not letting the unions do it...
 
And we all know the unions support is more important than our beaches or fishing, or oil business.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 16 June 2010 at 8:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 9:01am
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/gulf-oil-spill-impact-felt-country/story?id=10547590
 
"The Mobile Press Register reported that the federal government did not have any fire booms in the Gulf region, despite a 1994 response plan that called for them. Instead, booms had to be ordered from Illinois. "
 
 
"Someone needs to ask and have answered why it took government officials a full week to do a test burn, something that was clearly a first step scenario.
 
Some will call this the blame game similar to Robert Gibbs saying the Obama administration would keep the “boot on the throat” of BP, this time turning to the Obama administration. However, this is what government is put in place to do and why we pay taxes. Yet once again it appears like federal officials may have failed on a serious level by simply not following a 1994 response plan already set in place.

What we’re seeing is that whatever political party is in power, nobody is prepared for massive federal disasters when they occur. It’s the old saying, you have to have been there before."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 9:13am
I'll ask again. Please show me EXACTLY where it states that there is a law requiriing 10 oil booms to be on standby at all times.
 
Also, show me any proof that such booms were on the standby during either Bush administration and/or any other administration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 9:36am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I'll ask again. Please show me EXACTLY where it states that there is a law requiriing 10 oil booms to be on standby at all times.
 
Also, show me any proof that such booms were on the standby during either Bush administration and/or any other administration.
 
 
I think I have done enough work for you.
 
 
Here, show me where it doesn't say they need 10 booms, and proof Bush didn't have them.
 
seriously...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 9:36am
I also didn't see a reference to 10 fire booms in either link.  Either way, the difference between an executive order and Congressionally approved law in this case is huge.

How about you quote something, FE? Instead of being the huge tool you're being now.


Edited by ParielIsBack - 16 June 2010 at 9:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 10:00am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I'll ask again. Please show me EXACTLY where it states that there is a law requiriing 10 oil booms to be on standby at all times.
 
Also, show me any proof that such booms were on the standby during either Bush administration and/or any other administration.
 
 
I think I have done enough work for you.
 
 
Here, show me where it doesn't say they need 10 booms, and proof Bush didn't have them.
 
seriously...
Seriously, it's not that hard. I'll again ask where EXACTLY does it say that there has to be 10 BOOMS ON HAND AT ALL TIMES.  I see where it says there has to be access to them, but no where does it state a spedific number of any type of apparatus in any of the links you have posted. 
 
While I do not agree with Pres. Obamas response on this crisis, making it out like it his administrations shortcoming only is ludicrous. Show me that any other president since your so called "law" was put in effect that had said booms on the ready. Show me any official document stating that there were booms in place and "Oilbama" issued and executive order to remove them. Not asking you to "do my work", just suggesting that you might want to support some of your crazy with actual facts.
 
Should they have been there? Seems like it would have been a good idea. Was there a law outlining specifically 10 booms had to be at the ready? Doesn't look like it. Just because you think it's true, doesnt make it a fact.
 
Originally posted by Crazy Troll Crazy Troll wrote:

Here, show me where it doesn't say they need 10 booms, and proof Bush didn't have them.
Oh, and I did search the entire document you referenced for either "10" or "ten' and found neither in support of your claim. It's pretty easy to do, use CNTRL F, and the phrase, and it'll do the search.
 
Batter up.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 16 June 2010 at 10:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 10:41am
try that search for anything on that document... and you will see it isn't a "text" document but an image document, so no text is searchable. (I tried already).
 
"crazy troll". nice, really makes me want to waste more time on you.
 
anyway.
 
 
page 104 section 4.4
 
read it. I can't copy it (not text but an image)
 
Clearly it states that the government is responsible for burning a oil spill like this, and the materials to do so are in one of the departments shown on page 96...
 
If you look at that page, you will see why they can't find the booms...
 
They should be on this list.
 
 
But, I don't see them. course that list changes often, as products are discontinued or company supplier changes.
 
I would bet that the original manufacturer changes, they didn't find another, and just let the part of the law requiring burning and having equipment on hand to just be forgotten.
 
Until they needed it, and didn't have it.
 
Here is florida's version from 2008
 
 
it could be there, but I don't know the proper name for the hydro fire boom.
 
Looking through all of this, I can see how regulation is such a wonderful thing... It really  makes things clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 10:56am
another interesting tidbit I found.
 
 
pg 238...
 
clearly states in-situ burning.
 
kind of hard to do that if you dont have the fire booms, huh?
 
also, that graph shows what a "best response" would be... This one is clearly not.
 
 

Human Health

�� No public injuries

�� No worker injuries

Natural Environment

�� Source of discharge

minimized

�� Source contained

�� Sensitive areas protected

�� Resource damage minimized

Economy

�� Economic impact minimized

Public Communication

�� Positive media coverage

�� Positive public perception

Stakeholders Support

�� Minimize stakeholder impact

�� Stakeholders well informed

�� Positive meetings

�� Prompt Handling of claims

Organization

�� Standard Response Mgmt

Syst

�� Sufficient/Efficient resources

 
 
 
Obviously this is all BP's fault... And the government has nothing to do with the response.
 
oh wait.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 11:00am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

[
 
Here, show me where it doesn't say they need 10 booms, and proof Bush didn't have them.
 


Aaaaand that's called proving a negative. It's a logical fallacy. "Sir, prove in court that you DIDN'T commit the crime!"

Anyways, I like "Oilbama." I'm going to start using that one. I like it.

I'm a little surprised you've not started parroting the Washington Examiner's opinion piece from yesterday about how, even though the MMC was corrupt, sleeping with and accepting bribes from oil lobbyists and forging reports, the main reason that they failed to catch the clear signs of problems at Deepwater Horizon was...

...Mean ol' Oilbama was making them too focused on wind energy projects. That monster. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2010 at 11:02am
Page 104. Section 4.4.. Read through it several times. No mention of having to have 10 booms on hand at all times. Still waiting for this document with the magical number you have pulled from your butt.
 
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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