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Instant Negative Equity - Woot!

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oldpbnoob View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 June 2011 at 1:32pm

This may or may not interest most of you, so I'll try to keep it brief. The wife and I and after having the opportunity recently to pay off nearly all of our old debt and still have a substantial amount left over for a downpayment decided to buy a new house. And by new, I mean buying the land, hiring a builder etc. etc. So we picked out a lot, agreed on a price, found a builder, applied for a loan and off we go. Everyones pretty excited to move into something much bigger and nicer, everything is right in the world.

Today, I send an email to the bank that we are getting our loan through asking for an update on our loan application. Everything seems to be going ok, our income to debt ratio is good, we have the downpayment, only thing we are waiting for is for the appraiser to come back with an official appraisal so that the bank knows that the house we are building is worth the amount of money that we are spending. We have been pretty good only making some minor upgrades, some of which were actually comped by the builder. All would have been sounded great except for when the loan office makes the statement : "That’s the only problem we’ve been having lately because of the soft real estate market for actual sales, which is what the appraisers have to go by.". MMMkay? I ask for clarification because to me it sounds like there is a posibility the appraiser will come back saying the house isn't worth what we are paying because of the soft market which wouldn't be good. Essentially, the loan officer says they have been running into the situation lately where they are having some problems getting loans approved because exactly that is happening. And a lot more than they would like to admit.
 
After explaining that we really werent going to be in a position to put down much more than the 20% of the proposed value I asked what our options would be if the appraiser came back with an appraisal under the value that the builder want. He said the most common option was to apply for a home equity loan to pay for the difference of what the builder wants and what the appraisal value is.... Basically, depending on how much they value the house at vs. what the appraisal is, we could walk into a house with little or no equity even after a 20% downpayment. Considering the appraisal hasn't come back yet, I am trying not to get too worked up about this as it might be all for naught, but WTH? No wonder the housing market is in the crapper.
 
TL/DR: I don't want to pay $200k for a new house that the bank says is only worth $170k and piss away $40k of my hard earned money.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 21 June 2011 at 1:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 12:25am
your math hurts my head 200-170=40?
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10k is for hookers and blow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 7:46am
Trust your gut...
 
From what you have said, it sounds like a typical subdivision "scam". where they charge way more than the house is worth to build to your specs... while it actually ends up being just like every other house on the street. Are any of them for sale currently? That will tell you what they are "worth" once you move in.
 
For $200,000 you could get a STEAL of a home that was foreclosed on... I have seen houses in my part of Ohio that were selling for $375,000 and up going for $200,000 now on the short sale/hud sale market.
 
If it doesn't appraise, it isn't worth it. That is the appraisers job to say what the house is worth (without the sentimental attachments) on todays market. Appraisers used to just fudge the numbers but with the glut of homes that have been financed to the hilt and then foreclosed on, appraisers have been cracked down on and now they do a much better job of valuing a home at it's "real" value. (in other words, what the bones of the house are worth should someone decide to pull out the appliances, steal the toilets and stop paying their mortgage.
 
Buying new in todays market just doesn't make economic sense as the building material costs are still out of control, but the massive amount of available homes had dropped the value of all homes to a degree that building just is a bad investment right now... (course telling your wife that since she now has "new" in mind might be difficult).
 
It is a great time to buy, 30 year fixed rate loans are at around 4.5% If you are willing to do some work, you can get amazing homes for much less than retail prices. You would just be out the amount you put down, unless you can get them to refund your money if it doesn't appraise for the sale amount. (very likely)
 
 
Also, if you end up buying a discounted house, you can use your purchase contract to get your property value (taxes) lowered to the purchase price, which will net significant savings on your property taxes.
 
(I bought and sold houses for a decade before we built our dream home)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 7:51am
Move to Arizona.

Pick up a 250K house for 70. Just make sure all the wiring is still in it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 7:58am
Originally posted by merc merc wrote:

your math hurts my head 200-170=40?
The problem is I don't have good solid figures yet. What I am saying is if the house costs $200k and the appraiser values it at $170K,  the $40k downpayment we have saved is nearly wasted as I am still going in with negative equity. In order to put 20% down, I would have to put down $34k. We would then have to put the rest down and take out a home equity mortgage to make up the additional $30k difference. Trust me, the math makes my head hurt and it is really pissing me off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 8:04am
What is the property taxes on a 200k house in NY?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 8:12am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Trust your gut...
 
From what you have said, it sounds like a typical subdivision "scam". where they charge way more than the house is worth to build to your specs... while it actually ends up being just like every other house on the street. Are any of them for sale currently? That will tell you what they are "worth" once you move in.
 
For $200,000 you could get a STEAL of a home that was foreclosed on... I have seen houses in my part of Ohio that were selling for $375,000 and up going for $200,000 now on the short sale/hud sale market.
 
If it doesn't appraise, it isn't worth it. That is the appraisers job to say what the house is worth (without the sentimental attachments) on todays market. Appraisers used to just fudge the numbers but with the glut of homes that have been financed to the hilt and then foreclosed on, appraisers have been cracked down on and now they do a much better job of valuing a home at it's "real" value. (in other words, what the bones of the house are worth should someone decide to pull out the appliances, steal the toilets and stop paying their mortgage.
 
Buying new in todays market just doesn't make economic sense as the building material costs are still out of control, but the massive amount of available homes had dropped the value of all homes to a degree that building just is a bad investment right now... (course telling your wife that since she now has "new" in mind might be difficult).
 
It is a great time to buy, 30 year fixed rate loans are at around 4.5% If you are willing to do some work, you can get amazing homes for much less than retail prices. You would just be out the amount you put down, unless you can get them to refund your money if it doesn't appraise for the sale amount. (very likely)
 
 
Also, if you end up buying a discounted house, you can use your purchase contract to get your property value (taxes) lowered to the purchase price, which will net significant savings on your property taxes.
 
(I bought and sold houses for a decade before we built our dream home)
Foreclosures are great except you have to deal with what the last person chose for colors, cabinets, countertops, sinks, carpet, vinyl etc. Reason we want to buy new is so we can walk into a house with it just the way we want it. That, and there really arent very many houses in this price range in the area we are in. Only 4-5 homes in our area for sale under 10 years old and they are just not what we are looking for. And under no circumstances do I want to buy a home that "needs work". Been living in a house that we have been working on for nearly 10 years. I am so incredibly bored with that that I could scream as it still needs work.
 
Nothing about this is a scam. The builder has been upfront with us all along as to the cost of the house and actually, they were less per square foot than the other couple of builders we spoke with. Part of our problem is the village we live in. Most houses that are over $ 130k are built out in the country, not in town. The developer knew he was taking some risk in starting the subdivision as the market is small here for this price range of home. However, I think a lot of people are realizing, that building a nicer home in town isnt a bad thing. There is currently 1 house that is completed in the subdivision and it has been finished for over a year before it sold. Now within the past couple of months 4 houses are currently being built, no including ours.
 
And I have no interest in living in Arizona. I would think the same problem might be there in that with the values of homes on a freefall there,  banks would be apprehensive about loaning money on them in the fear that they will devalue.
 
Overall it's just irritating to have the money in hand, for what should be an easy transaction and now due to the falling real estate prices across the country and a bunch of asshats that bought houses they couldn't afford, I am in limbo on what essentially amounts to our dreamish home.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 22 June 2011 at 8:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 8:13am
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

What is the property taxes on a 200k house in NY?
I wouldnt have a clue considering I live in Ohio.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 8:17am
Ok, different situation than what I pictured...
 
Well, first homes sold in new subdivisions are almost always the cheapest... So that is a good thing for you equity wise. As down the road as they expand into level 2, 3, and 4 usually have much higher starting prices. Especially when they start adding amenities (pools, sidewalks, parks ect). Is there a lot of land available for this one to grow like that?
 
If it is land locked clearly that wouldn't be the case.
 
But, you may just be worrying needlessly, wait and see what the appraisal comes back at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 8:24am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

What is the property taxes on a 200k house in NY?
I wouldnt have a clue considering I live in Ohio.


Thought you did. Sry bout that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 8:32am
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

What is the property taxes on a 200k house in NY?
I wouldnt have a clue considering I live in Ohio.


Thought you did. Sry bout that
No worries. The Yankee Stadium thing is a joke. Makes sense if you look at my profile. I live in NW Ohio and if I remember correctly, the property taxes would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500 or so a year. There is a formula for figuring it out, but the even the lady at the tax appraisers office couldnt explain to me how to figure it out. She just gave me a number.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 8:38am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Ok, different situation than what I pictured...
 
Well, first homes sold in new subdivisions are almost always the cheapest... So that is a good thing for you equity wise. As down the road as they expand into level 2, 3, and 4 usually have much higher starting prices. Especially when they start adding amenities (pools, sidewalks, parks ect). Is there a lot of land available for this one to grow like that?
 
If it is land locked clearly that wouldn't be the case.
 
But, you may just be worrying needlessly, wait and see what the appraisal comes back at.
It is actually phase 2 or 3. However, it took many years for the other phases to complete. I use the term phase loosely. There are only 4 streets in the subdivision. Each one is a "phase". Most of the first homes built there are probably pushing 20 years or so now. The last was built maybe 2-3 years ago. It is a really small town. I suspect that it will take another 10 years before all of the lots are sold and built on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2011 at 9:35am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

[QUOTE=FreeEnterprise] Foreclosures are great except you have to deal with what the last person chose for colors, cabinets, countertops, sinks, carpet, vinyl etc.

Everything can be spray-painted. 


(On a serious note I hope all works out well in your situation. There is little worse than the rock-hardplace ratio when it comes to someone's home, or future home). 
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