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2016 Primaries

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agentwhale007 View Drop Down
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Forum's Noam Chomsky

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2016 Primaries
    Posted: 04 May 2016 at 11:49am
Well, barring some kind of asteroid situation, it looks like it'll be Trump v. Hillary, now that Cruz has dropped out. 

Which pretty much means it'll be President Hillary Clinton, considering how well Trump polls, even now, against her. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2016 at 6:44pm
Ironically, it looks like Hillary will now get enough delegates to win outright without much need from super-delegates, whereas the Republicans will most likely rely on de-pledged delegates at the convention to stop Donald Trump.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2016 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by deadeye007 deadeye007 wrote:

I find it funny that Bernie worked hard to receive the votes, but the system took the delegates from him and gave them someone that didn't deserve it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2016 at 3:53pm
This whole election is an exercise in idiocy. Hillary has bought and paid for the Democrat nomination with the Super Delagate gamesmanship, she will not repeat 2008, Bernie never had a chance. And talk about a democratic process, Democrats get no choice, and never really had a choice.

The GOP is no better, too bad there is no unified front against Trump, the majority support everyone else, but no unified stance so Trump will prevail, unfortunately.

So we are down to the usual vote against not for election in November, I will as usual hold my nose and vote ABC (anyone but Clinton).

Did drive by the Bernie rally in downtown Lincoln Saturday, was a hoot you would think it was 1968 all over again. Strange crowd of new wanna-be hippies, and old gray haired never got the memo 60's are over hippies. Still asking the same question to the local Bernie supporters, who is going to pay for all this free stuff when you run out of wealthy people to tax, ala Venezuela. This all 'works' till you run out of other peoples money..................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2016 at 11:46am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

 I've got to ask though, what does that say about the "party of the people" if they take so much of the outcome out of the hands of the people?

That their party got almost hijacked one time by southern Dixiecrats, from Thurmond to Wallace, and the party reacted by using super-delegates as a stopgap to help keep that from happening. 

I think the number they have right now is probably too many, but I totally understand the need of having super-delegates. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2016 at 2:51am
I find it funny that Bernie worked hard to receive the votes, but the system took the delegates from him and gave them someone that didn't deserve it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2016 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


I don't know if this is the point you were trying to make, but super-delegates are not a part of the U.S. Electoral College. They're a concept only really used by the individual parties in the primary process, which have only recently been turned into a legally binding process. <span style="line-height: 16.8px;">And even then, they only really ever have an impact with the Democratic Party, as they have assigned over 700 people to the super-delegate system, whereas the Republicans only have about 100.</span>




You are correct in your assumption. I've got to ask though, what does that say about the "party of the people" if they take so much of the outcome out of the hands of the people?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2016 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

If we went pure popular vote only 5 states would essentially pick the president.


I tend to agree with you in spirit -- I think a proportional system is needed to keep campaigning more relevant in all states. But the counter to what you said is that essentially about five states pick the president as it is. 

Only a handful of states are ever going to be viably contested in a given election year. No Democrat is going to waste much time campaigning in Texas. No Republican is going to waste much time campaigning in Massachusetts. Consistently though, Florida, Ohio, Virginia, Colorado and Pennsylvania decide who becomes president. The swing states shift over time, but there are always a handful of swing states. 

What I think the important part of the Electoral College is, rather than what you said, is that it equalizes the entire state vs. the urban center. Because it comes down to the popular vote per-each-state, more value is also placed on campaigning to the issues of the whole state -- things that impact cities and agricultural/rural. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2016 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:


Meanwhile, the "superdelegates" are rearing their ugly heads in NH as despite the fact that Hillary was thoroughly whipped there by Sanders, the DNC isn't going to let the people have their voice and have whipped their superdelegates to declare for Hillary.

I personally think it's time to burn the electoral college and all the associated underhanded BS that goes along with it to the ground. It made sense when people had to physically stump around the country to get their platform across, but in the day and age of tv, social media, and all things information technology, I don't think it matters as much.


I don't know if this is the point you were trying to make, but super-delegates are not a part of the U.S. Electoral College. They're a concept only really used by the individual parties in the primary process, which have only recently been turned into a legally binding process. And even then, they only really ever have an impact with the Democratic Party, as they have assigned over 700 people to the super-delegate system, whereas the Republicans only have about 100.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2016 at 1:29pm
Barring some kind of weird surprise on Super Tuesday, it's hard not to see Donald Trump winning the GOP nomination. The theory has been that as other candidates drop, their supporters will go over to either Rubio or Cruz. But when Jeb dropped, that didn't happen in any available polling data. And Christie has now come out to endorse Trump, meaning a good chunk of his ~6% will go to Trump. 

The two biggest states on his plate are Florida and Texas, the home states for his competition. He's running away with Florida, and he's managed to almost tie Cruz in Texas. 

So as absolutely bizarre as it is, yeah, Donald Trump will probably represent the GOP in November. 

The Democrats are a little closer if you look at national polling data: Clinton is only ahead by 6 points. But that doesn't tell the whole story. Clinton is beating Sanders in delegates 505-71:



Despite the fact that Sanders and Clinton tied in Iowa, Sanders blew out New Hampshire, and Clinton won Nevada by only a handful of percentage points, Clinton is leading with the super-delegates -- folks who can put their vote toward any candidate regardless of how the state votes. 

So it's hard to see a mathematical way Sanders win this, despite him making up so much ground. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2016 at 10:41pm
I'd be all for a movement for delegates to be proportional instead of winner-take-all. Right now my vote just doesn't count. But the parties hate that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2016 at 10:21pm
As someone who early on wouldn't have hated Rubio, the last few debates/interviews I've seen with him have really changed my mind. I'd probably even rather have Cruz than him.

Him explaining his tax plan tonight (which heavily leans on tax breaks for those with children) really rubbed me the wrong way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2016 at 4:32pm
We must remember the role of the electoral college. To ensure the people od all the states are represented in national elections. If we went pure popular vote only 5 states would essentially pick the president. When 5 states by population outnumber the remaining how is that a true representation of the vote. The flyover states will have no voice but yet will have to 'pay' based on that 5 state majority vote...would make today's gamesmanship kids games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 February 2016 at 10:59am
It does seem pretty convoluted and anachronistic. Why do we even need delegates to vote? They should just be distributed by the numbers alone. Leave the human element out of it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2016 at 8:05pm
It's official. Christie is out as is Fiorina. Good riddance on the Christie end of things, and Fiorina simply hasn't done well since her bump in the polls the first or second debate when she stood up to Trump.

Meanwhile, the "superdelegates" are rearing their ugly heads in NH as despite the fact that Hillary was thoroughly whipped there by Sanders, the DNC isn't going to let the people have their voice and have whipped their superdelegates to declare for Hillary.

I personally think it's time to burn the electoral college and all the associated underhanded BS that goes along with it to the ground. It made sense when people had to physically stump around the country to get their platform across, but in the day and age of tv, social media, and all things information technology, I don't think it matters as much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2016 at 10:32am
When looking for a president, policies, goals, and character are important to me, but I think a president needs to look like a strong president. Cruz just looks too creepy to me. Definitely wouldn't want him going around the world to other leaders being the face of America.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2016 at 10:03am
I'm not a violent person by nature, but Ted Cruz's face makes me want to just clock him one. Tallen, isn't there another gif of Cruz trying to go in for some awkward-ass kiss and getting denied?

AHH I found it:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2016 at 10:20am
Tallen, that is perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2016 at 7:17am
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

I just can't seem to trust him. Though, I couldn't put my finger on one particular reason why.




When your own daughter can't even play nice for the campaign trail cameras.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2016 at 5:09am
There is no real choice at all. It is going to end up as a voting against the other candidate more than voting for 'your' candidate. Another lessor of the two evils presented elections. Pretty sure I am just voting anti-Democrat based on the two evils they are presenting, a liar and a whack job too liberal for NY so he left for Vermont.

So far it looks like the Republicans will hurt my wallet less, other than that no real issues concern me.
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