2016 Primaries |
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usafpilot07
Moderator Group FreeEnterprise's #1 Fan & Potty Mouth Joined: 31 August 2004 Location: Tokelau Status: Offline Points: 4626 |
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Should we start a pool for when Trump decides he's cashed in on the extra publicity and bows out of the race?
I'm thinking January 16.
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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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The news last night said that "his impact could range anywhere from a Perot to more of a Nader," which made me laugh a little.
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oldsoldier
Moderator Group Crazy old guy Joined: 10 June 2002 Status: Offline Points: 6725 |
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Oh great another Perot moment in history, just enough to secure a Hillary win.
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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BARREL BREAK
Moderator Group Official Jackbooted Thug Moderator Joined: 08 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10840 |
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I happen to think killing is... wrong. Kinda like in the commandments thingies conservatives love (in name).
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impulse418
Moderator Group off the hook four days early <3 <3 <3 Joined: 25 November 2010 Location: Phx, AZ Status: Offline Points: 3354 |
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I liked trump for not having a filter. Refreshing. He's an idiot, but refreshing.
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tallen702
Moderator Group Hipster before Hipster was cool... Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: Under Your Bed Status: Offline Points: 11850 |
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I think you'll see his poll numbers start to decline this week as McCain failed to take the bait and publicly debate Trump on this which is what I think Trump really wanted. Inflammatory statements will always get you a bump in the nutcase electorate for polling purposes, but so long as McCain lets the issue die quietly (like he seems to have done) it won't have any lasting positive effect on people talking about Trump and his numbers will fall as he fails to get continued media presence from these kinds of remarks. |
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<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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Trump's up above the 20% mark in an ABC/WaPo poll, but only the last day of polling included his remarks about John McCain, and the last day curbed his numbers sharply.
I'm interested to see what shakes out after the first full polling cycle post-McCain statements.
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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I don't think you'll find a single person outside of maybe some of the people who answered the phone/online polls in his favor who thought he was a serious candidate.
Mexico isn't sending us anyone though, to be fair. People themselves are escaping areas of crippling poverty and war-zone levels of crime, brought about largely by the Mexican government's inability to provide for its people and control the power of drug cartels.
Oh, for sure. The way Mexico handles its border with Guatemala is bad thing. And the way they diplomatically speak about the U.S.'s immigration issues is laughable. There is a difference between the government and the people, though.
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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oldsoldier
Moderator Group Crazy old guy Joined: 10 June 2002 Status: Offline Points: 6725 |
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Trump was the GOP yelling 'Squirrel" and getting the left to focus on that (and it worked). Never a serious contender, you all should of known that. He just has the intenstinal fortitude to actually say whats on his mind rather than scripted teleprompter other writers points that focused well to the current audience. And many people 'on the inside' agree with him but lack any courage to say so 'on the outside'.
And it is not like Mexico is 'sending' us their best and brightest, well educated, English speaking, job trained, and better off financially immigration candidates. You all, I hope, have read Mexican Immagration Law and Policies concerning their Southern Border, and they have the nerve to say our policies are too strict and unhumanitarian...really. Edited by oldsoldier - 19 July 2015 at 9:00pm |
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BARREL BREAK
Moderator Group Official Jackbooted Thug Moderator Joined: 08 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10840 |
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It's great that people who are apparently ok with Trump referring to Mexicans as thieves and rapists are outraged about an actual killer being slightly jilted. :)
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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oldsoldier
Moderator Group Crazy old guy Joined: 10 June 2002 Status: Offline Points: 6725 |
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Whale I will get you source material as well as citations when I get the time.
The problem as you know is getting by the perceptions rather than the reality. The local farmers are up in arms as they see A and are told B by the State and Federal Government. My next door neighbor already lost money as his crop is going for far less than he put into it. All you got to do is sit by a table at the local breakfast joint and listen to the 'heartbeat' of America. The tax code is available thru the IRS, I forgot what it was but momma doing or taxes was 'told' it through the tax program she used to do our taxes. Program is VA Chapter 35 http://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/resources/benefits_resources/rates/ch35/ch35rates100113.asp And the tax code stuff I can find is as follows, which did not match what the IRS tax advisor momma called to verify the taxable status of our benefit.http://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/ch01.html#en_US_2014_publink1000178026 You talk of tax differences, what about the standard costs of consumer goods and the difference there from 2008 to 2015 and the root causes of this increase, and the drive to raise minimum wage, yet the unforeseen costs of increased cost consumer goods, and the fixed income people not able to keep up. What is it called again? Law of unintentional consequence? Again you won't really notice all this until you get here as well, as every month you got to balance the 'fixed' inflow to outflow, and the outflow is starting to way outpace your 'fixed' inflow, dipping into that savings you planned to use way differently, then you will get it. And I am not the only one at our age playing this 'game', and losing. Really Whale take a research tour of rural farm America, and just listen, sit in the local and other truck stops and listen to the plight of the owner operator and company drivers, you understand the plight of the student, but what about the parents that provide for those students. Two local professors did a tour with me to the Squeegie Breakfast joint and listened, then we sat at the Flying J truck Stop and listened over lunch and dinner, and the real liberal who missed out being a hippie female went on the back of my Harley on a Patriot Guard soldier's funeral, and she saw what diversity is all about, did not match her perception of 'Bikers' or 'Patriots' she was teaching. She passed recently and I attended her funeral on my Harley and dressed let's say diversely, and her peers came up to me and asked if I was the one who took her on that tour, and how she changed her outlook after it. Mission accomplished. Education is great, but sometimes blind to the actual subject taught, and the economic argument I have with a local retired professor is great. He complains about the economy and pay inequity, and I ask him when he negotiated his salary did he go for the best deal and forget the students who pay for his salary and benefits, or a balanced deal he demands others today to accept. He got his, now time to ensure someone else can not do as he did. Once again the political circus is just that anymore, and we pick the 'clown' who meets our perceptions of need, and will hopefully damage our wallet the least. Hillary, Bush or Trump DO NOT meet my needs. Edited by oldsoldier - 17 July 2015 at 12:48pm |
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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Hey look, we agree on a thing. (Although Sanders won't actually win, it's nice to think about).
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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Politically I'm much more in the pragmatist mindset -- do the thing that best gets the job done regardless of attached ideologies.
Which, you know, should make you angry that corporations often use tax shelters and loopholes to avoid paying their fair share, and in return, more has to be taxed from people like you and me in order to keep things working. Seems like that's a more appropriate target for ire than the working poor.
Link me with some info. I'd be interested to read about it.
Are you talking about his "American College Promise" plan? The one that deals with subsidizing the costs of two years worth of community college? I don't really see what that has to do with some of the things you're talking about here. But, the plan really is a great idea, something that we really need at this point in the country. It's important to note that the program does not just pass out checks to students. It mandates that students only receive tuition waivers if: They maintain a 2.5 GPA, they enroll at least half-time in credits, and have to show they are making steady progression toward the completion of a degree. Especially as more states push their community colleges to offer four-year degrees, like they have here in Florida, this means less student debt for those who are often in a lower socio-economic strata to begin with. And it isn't just for your standard college degrees. There are potential incentives in the proposed package that would incentivize trade certificates along with degrees, like automotive engineering. I'm a professor now. I can tell you that the number one thing that causes students to leave school, on a consistent basis, is stress about financials -- that they'll be in too much debt by the time they finish that the degree won't be worth it, and that only gets worse when students come from poor families. This program is a really, really good thing.
Was that plan through a private insurance company?
I suppose my litmus test for a president goes a bit deeper than which one kept taxes the lowest.
I'm a professor. A state employee, none-the-less, who has to weather the ideological political battles and shrinking, constantly shifting budgets that come along with a job in education.
Oh this is a way worse thing than you're giving it credit for.
And do tell, those corn fields and slaughterhouses, what kind of federal subsidies are those getting? We're slated to spend about $134 billion over the next decade on agricultural subsidies, farm assistance, and supplemental crop insurance. It's not exactly chump change. Almost all of it goes to corn, soy, beef, and pork. That's not to say that agricultural subsides are not bad on face value -- they certainly have their historical reasons to exist in this country. But it also means that you cannot exactly turn up your nose to people who need welfare programs to get by and also extol the gee-shucks nature of the American farm.
I'd be interested to see if you have statistics to back this up? Edited by agentwhale007 - 17 July 2015 at 12:05am |
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BARREL BREAK
Moderator Group Official Jackbooted Thug Moderator Joined: 08 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10840 |
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I'm glad I know so many amazing senior citizen leftists who haven't gone to the defeatist seed you think everyone is doomed to. Your experiences cannot be universalized, isn't that supposed to be a lesson you learn as you age?
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oldsoldier
Moderator Group Crazy old guy Joined: 10 June 2002 Status: Offline Points: 6725 |
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Whale, as you too age and find the reality of wife, kids, work and taxes you will begin to understand the frustrations of many out here. You are young and in your rebellious, I am going to change the world mode, as I was 40 years ago, and 40 years from now you are going to review this time and go what was I thinking.
My concern now being on a fixed income is which political idiot is going to take less of this fixed income to give to someone else far less motivated than I was. I am part of the 'other people's money' the Government seems to enjoy taking to redistribute. For example for three kids previously I received VA benefits based on my disability for their college education, tax free. April 15 based on some income tax legislation that benefit 'earned', by my service,and not entitled was determined now to be taxable income, so in the research this was a Democrat led snuck in under the radar Tax Law change. I had to write a BIG check to the IRS, and with the fixed income had a dramatic effect to my economy, and she has 2 more years to go. So that Obama claim on wanting 'free' college is total Bravo Sierra, for look what his party did to me, one individual who is 'paying' for one of his kids to go to college, I earned that 'benifit' with blood, tears, and sacrifice all those years ago, not standing on a corner with a sign saying I am entitled to this 'now'. The wife's health care plan available through her employer (City of Lincoln) has now doubled the premiums on ACA becoming 'law'. So another case of an 'affordable' healthcare law is only affordable to those who get their healthcare paid for by someone else. The wife is now enrolled in CHAMPVA, so her healthcare is now affordable for she gets 100% of her medical needs as part of my VA benefit, not the option we wanted, but the option we can afford under this Affordable Healthcare. I can actually look at my 2008 tax return, and my 2014 tax return and just based on the percentages I got to keep more of my money in 2008, than in 2014. So I can honestly answer the question, am I better off under Obama, or Bush, I can prove I was better off under Bush as I 'retired' in 2007 and went fixed income. So what can Democrats offer me, higher taxes, on a fixed income, so my incentives to vote Democrat are? My priority in this election is to vote for whoever will take less of that fixed income to give to someone else, as I am the 'other people's money' that all this perceived 'free' stuff for the less motivated comes from. You are a journalist and should understand the term 'Maskirovka' when it is applied to politics. Get the compliant media to yell "SQUIRREL" in a room to distract that room from the real problems and get them focused on some meaningless little problem of the moment. I am just really tired of The Royal Families (Bush, Clinton), and the 'political class' telling us the people how we should live, while they exempt themselves. If public schools are so great, the Political Class kids go to them as well, if Obamacare so good the Political Class is enrolled as well. I understand Hillary and her promises meaning little as her NY Senate promise was 'forgotten' in her first run. I understand Trump and his ability to fund his whole campaign himself (good thing), his need to speak his mind, not read a teleprompter, cue card based on a focused group tested speech writers words addressing the audience of the night. But I do not see Trump as even close to being my considered candidate. Here in Nebraska, just like NY, Omaha/Lincoln are the focus, and the 'rubes' who grow the corn, process the beef for the states economy mean nothing in the face of all the entitlement needs of those who sit in North Omaha for example, unemployed by choice (our unemployment rate is around 4% there are jobs available). It is so bad here that we have to import labor from neighboring states as the professional unemployed here in Nebraska demand more in benefits and will not go to where the jobs are. And the Democrat state politicians foster this dependency as a solid voting base. The same mistakes NY made Nebraska Democrats are running headlong to repeat. 40 years from now one of your grandchildren will ask you a question where you know on the outside you will say X, but on the inside you will know the real response, as you look into that mirror of life. Edited by oldsoldier - 16 July 2015 at 3:50pm |
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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If I were Jeb Bush, I'd be really frustrated with how this is all shaking out. Instead of being able to start early-campaigning against Hillary in the primary season, he's got to now separate himself from Trump's numbers and constantly respond to what the rest of the field hurls at him, often times from people who are sticking with anti-ACA and anti-gay marriage platforms. You can almost see it in his eyes, when someone asks him about overturning the Affordable Care Act, that he wants to pull out a white board and start explaining how the Supreme Court works.
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agentwhale007
Moderator Group Forum's Noam Chomsky Joined: 20 June 2002 Location: Statesboro, GA Status: Offline Points: 12014 |
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I wouldn't discredit gay marriage as a "reality show" circus. It was a civil rights issue for a lot of people in the U.S., one that had been growing for nearly 30 years now, and one that continues beyond just allowing for legalized marriage. This was a thing that greatly impacted people. As for the Confederate flag, I think a lot of what happened around it was hoopla. I completely understand the protests to take the flag down from state government buildings, as they have no right or reason to be flown there, but the overall conversation around it seemed to be lost going into different directions.
The presence and perception of assistance programs in the U.S., as well as the tax rate for corporations, is a complication issue that just cannot be condensed down into these bumper-sticker statements with any kind of accuracy.
Dang, a whole lot of people got included on this list. And I agree with you on almost all of them, although probably not for the same reasons. Ok, so like, what do we do about all of those. Because they all have their own issues going on. ISIS, yes, they are an evil bunch of people, and I do wish we were more proactive in doing something about them, seeing as we are responsible for them existing to start with. We could be doing more that doesn't require Boots on the Ground. We could be helping to stabilize Syria, which is where a lot of ISIS stages. We could be boosting the other militaries fighting them, like Jordan. And the one thing that would help the most (but is probably the longest shot to solving the problem), bring Iran to the table in helping get rid of ISIS. China is the world's biggest polluter. They are dumping the most Co2 and other harmful emissions into the air of any other country on Earth. They have a total lack of environmental regulation, and it's polluting waterways across Asia. Something has got to be done with that, or we're all going to pay the price for it.
Flee New York, or flee the U.S.? We're not going to be a mass-manufacturing society again. Not when we have to compete with Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.
The short answer is that there are tons of reasons why healthcare costs for some go up. One thing is going to be programs like the over-arching VA system growing to take on more people. The long answer is that other insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and pretty much every other private medical step in the health care process, have the ability to increase costs at an almost unregulated state.
For them, the costs will most likely be much lower compared to pre-ACA coverage options. |
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