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Enos Shenk 
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~-o@ Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: A comfy chair Status: Offline Points: 14109 |
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 Posted: 02 January 2004 at 12:41am |
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Parts comparison (And a little bit of history) of the carbine series
by your pimp, Enos Shenk KRL and Hway suggested i write this, so here goes nothing. To compare what parts can be interchanged and modified between carbine series guns, its necessary to start with a bit of history so you know how things evolved. After the success of the SMG and 68-special lines, Tippmann created the first in the carbine series, the Pro-Am. Introduced in 1992, the more compact and modular design was a hit. Picture 1 - Picture 2 Outwardly its almost identical to a Pro-Lite, but there are a few subtle differences. Firstly, the grip does not split in half when removed from the reciever. The trigger and sear are "dropped" in from the top, and the pivot and stop rods are inserted through holes in the sides of the gripframe. The ASA also fits in the back, and the air hose is routed the same as in a Pro-Lite. The grip frame is also held on by push pins instead of bolts. Inwardly, the internals of the Pro-Am are almost identical to a Pro-Lite. Next came the legendary Pro-Lite. Updating the design of the Pro-Am, the Pro-Lite used a composite grip that split in half to give access to the trigger and sear, it also had a slightly different mounted ASA. Picture The Pro-Lite was also marketed in a custom configuration that shipped stock with a vertical adapter AND the ASA in the grip. This was dubbed the Mini-Lite, and could run dual tank straight out of the box. But the Mini-Lite was still a Pro-Lite, just with a different name. The reciever even still had Pro-Lite written on it. Tippmann innovated around this time and created the Factory F/A. The F/A is a heavily modified Pro-Lite. The gripframe is identical to a Pro-Lite frame, but uses a safety with a cam built in. This cam rotates with the safety to block the trigger as a standard safety, put the gun in semi mode, or push the trigger back to where the sear cannot disengage, turning the gun full-auto. However you cant just hold the sear down and have a full-auto gun, the cyclic rate must be limited to feeder speeds. Here is where the large rear sight assembly on an F/A comes into play. The device is called the Shock, and it regulates the guns cyclic rate to keep up with the feeder. The way it works is 2 sears drop down through gaps in the top of the reciever and catch on the top of the heavily milled rear bolt. As the gun begins to cycle, the spring pushes the hammer forward, but catches on the first shock sear. The spring forces the sear forward, pushing an attached piston in an air chamber. The air chamber has a hole drilled through to the adjacent chamber, and the moving rear bolt forces the air out through the hole into the second chamber. Since this takes time, the rate is limited until the shock sear is pushed far enough forward that the sear disengages and the hammer again moves freely. Until it hits the second, shorter, shock sear, where this process is repeated. But this time the air is forced back into the FIRST chamber, pushing the first sear backwards and resetting the system. The second major addition to the F/A is the Star Feeder. The precursor to the cyclone feed, the Star Feed uses the 5-sprocket star in the can to feed balls to the F/A very fast. However the Star Feed operates on spring tension, and must be wound up like a watch every so often. Picture 1 - Picture 2 Again updating the carbine series, the 68-Carbine was introduced. The 68c had more important differences between the previous carbines. It came stock with a .45 frame and bottomline. It used slightly different internals (such as the rear bolt) and a slimmed down and anodized reciever. Instead of the Tippmann name milled onto the side of the reciever, its etched on the 68c. The 68c came out in 3 distinct versions, which were updated as time went on. The first version has no foregrip and uses a barrel-tip front sight. It also uses the Pro-Lite valve configuration. The second version included a foregrip and no barrel tip sight, but still used the Pro-Lite valve. Version 3 was the same as 2, but used the CVX valve, and with regards to the foregrip and feeder elbow is otherwise identical to a Pro-Carbine. Picture 1 - Picture 2 The Pro-Carbine is a merge of the Pro-Lite and the 68-Carbine. The reciever, internals, and grip are absolutely identical to the 68-Carbine. The foregrip and integrated feeder elbow is identical to the one found on the Pro-Lite. Picture (Like you need one) Now for the parts: Reciever: The Pro-Lite and Mini-Lite recievers are absolutely identical, both have Pro-Lite milled on the side. The Pro-Am reciever is identical in shape and function to the Pro-Lite reciever except for the grip mounting holes are large and not threaded. (nothing 5 minutes with a thread tap cant fix) The Factory F/A reciever is a heavily modified Pro-Lite reciever and can only be used for a Factory F/A The 68-Carbine and Pro-Carbine recievers are almost identical except for the gun name etched on the side and the length of the sight rails on the top. Grip: The Pro-Am grip is cast metal one-piece The Pro-Lite, Mini-Lite and Factory F/A grips are the same, composite plastic and 2-halves with ASA integrated into the grip. (note that the Factory F/A grip has "Safe Semi and Full" on the side, but is identical in function) The Pro-Lite .45 frame, 68-Carbine and Pro-Carbine grips are identical. Compisite plastic in 2-halves with bottomline mount. Valves: Pro-Am/Pro-Lite/Factory F/A/68-Carbine 1 & 2 -- The prolite valve has 2 valve pins, and 2 cup seals, one at each end of a free-floating valve body. When the valve is struck by the rear bolt, the entire valve assembly moves forward, opening both seals, and directing air forwards and backwards. 68-Carbine 3/Pro-Carbine -- The CVX valve uses air channels cut into the sides of the valve that allows air to pass around between the valve and reciever. The air is released from one spot only, and is routed more effeciently with propellant air firing first, then as the cycle goes on, releasing air backwards to reset the rear bolt. This design also makes air taps for the RT and cyclone feed possible when tapped where the gas is released in the back of the valve. Rear Bolts: The Pro-Am, Pro-Lite and Mini-Lite rear bolts are identical. The Factory F/A uses a milled rear bolt that could theoretically be used in a Pro-Lite or Pro-Am, but a Pro-Lite or Mini-Lite rear bolt cannot be used in a Factory F/A The 68-Carbine and Pro-Carbine use identical rear bolts Front Bolts: As far as i know, the front bolt is iterchangable on any carbine series. Im sure someone will correct me if im wrong here. Im absolutely certain the 68-Carbine and Pro-Carbine is. Linkage Arm: The Pro-Am, Pro-Lite, Mini-Lite and Factory F/A use the same linkage The 68-Carbine and Pro-Carbine use the same linkage. Powertube: The Pro-Am, Pro-Lite, Mini-Lite and Factory F/A use identical aluminum powertubes. The 68-Carbine and Pro-Carbine use identical powertubes. Trigger: The Pro-Am uses its own trigger The Pro-Lite and Mini-Lite use identical triggers. The Factory F/A uses its own modified trigger. The 68-Carbine and Pro-Carbine use identical triggers. Sear: All carbine series guns use the same sear. Rear Sight: The Pro-Lite, Pro-Am, and Mini-Lite use identical rear sights with the jam screw to fasten them in place. The Factory F/A rear sight conceals the Shock system and cannot be used on anything else. The 68-Carbine and Pro-Carbine rear sights are identical, plastic. Note: No carbine series gun will function without the rear sight in place as it holds the linkage arm in its groove. Foregrip: The Pro-Am uses a foregrip almost the same as the rest, but it doesnt split in half. The Pro-Lite, Mini-Lite and Pro-Carbine use the same foregrip with integrated elbow The Factory F/A uses only the foregrip without the elbow to accomodate the star feed. The 68-Carbine 2 and 3 use a composite foregrip much like an SL68 that is held on by the barrel pinch. A Factory F/A foregrip will fit on a 68-Carbine, but a Pro-Lite/Pro-Carbine style foregrip will not fit. Grip bolts: The Pro-Am uses push pins for gripframe mounting. All other guns use identical 10-32 threaded bolts. Identical on all guns: Velocity screw Barrel pinch bolt Cocking Handle Elbow pinch bolt End Cap Rear bolt O-ring Stuff im not sure about: Main spring Main spring guide pin
Edited by Enos Shenk |
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Kreeper-X
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The A-5 God of Thunder Joined: 20 July 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2130 |
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Posted: 31 December 2003 at 2:24am |
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How does the A-5 really stack up against the Model 98 Custom?
By Kreeper-X Updated 04-04-2003 Overall: 9 out of 10 I've discovered, since the release of Tippmanns' latest marker, that there are a lot of misconceptions about the A-5. One of the first things people said, before ever even seeing one in person was that the Cyclone feeder was far too large and made for a "huge" target on the right hand side of the marker. As you will read later on in this article, that's not true at all. The prevailing "wisdom" among those who don't own the A-5 is that it's nothing more than a "rehash of the Model 98 Custom with a fancy hopper" and that there are few, if any, improvements to the overall performance of what's looked at by many in the paintball community as "just another Tippmann blow back semi." It is for these people that I write this article. The Similarities Looking strictly at the design of the marker, the A-5 is what Tippmann has perfected and does best, an open-bolt blow-back semi-automatic paintball marker utilizing Tippmanns' extremely versatile CVX valve. The design is simple and extremely durable, so much so that Tippmann has changed very little in the valve and bolt system design since the 68 Carbine was released some time ago. Like all modern Tippmann markers, the A-5 utilizes a rear bolt that is driven forward by a drive spring and returned to the ready position by blow-back gasses. The front bolt which opens and closes the breech and releases gas into the barrel is connected to the rear bolt by a linkage arm. As the rear bolt comes forward to strike the valve pin and release the gas, the front bolt forces the paintball into the breech and seals off the barrel before releasing a burst of gas into the barrel, launching the paintball. The A-5 also uses Tippmanns' old velocity adjustment screw which works not by changing the gas output of the valve, but creating turbulence in the power tube, slowing the air down. This system wastes some gas and a good Rear Velocity Adjuster will fix this. The Look Once you get past the basic operation of the A-5, the similarities with the Model 98 begin to end the differences become apparent. The very first thing that anyone notices about the new Tippmann A-5 is the look of the marker. The M98 and M98c really didn't look all that great in my opinion but they were far from ugly (except those darned gills on the M98). The A-5 has a decidedly "real world" look to it without a hopper and tank on it, resembling an H&K MP5 right down the foregrip, cocking knob and trigger grip frame. Players need not worry about being arrested though, as the A-5 with the Cyclone and a hopper and a tank looks less like a real firearm and more like a paintball marker. Also noticeable is the MP5 style trigger grip frame which is made primarily for right handed players. Some people prefer 45 style grips so Tippmann made the grip frame removable to accommodate 45 grips or aftermarket Lefty grip frames. J&J performance is working on an aluminum 45 style grip, and Tippmann has recently released an electronic sear tripping E-Grip. The stock A-5 grip frame is made of a plastic polymer to reduce weight, but it's not just cheap plastic, it's ballistics quality stuff and can take a serious amount of abuse. In fact, a lot of the A-5 is "plastic" instead of aluminum both because of cost and weight. The grip frame and foregrip as well as the main cyclone body and cocking knob are plastic. This reduces weight, so it's not a bad thing, though some people are scared to death of plastic. Tippmann made this marker to last and you need not worry, it's not a Brass Eagle marker after all, it's a Tippmann Marker and we all know how Tippmann stand behind the products they make. The overall size of the A-5 is a little longer than the M98c and a bit heaver, but this is because the M98c is weighed without a revy hopper and the A-5 has the Cyclone built in. However, due to the low profile and the fact that the hopper and Cyclone feeder fit so close to the marker, the A-5 has a better overall balance to it than the M98c. The Cyclone Feed System The second thing that they notice is the Cyclone Feed System, which looks like about half of a soda can with a five arm "star" agitator inside it. The Cyclone Feed System resembles the Star Feed System on the old Tippmann Factory F/A markers from the mid nineties. In fact the Cyclone is the next generation of the same feed system. The Factory F/A was a fully mechanical Full-Auto paintball marker that, for the most part, wasn't allowed on most fields or in tourneys, and Tippmann needed a reliable and fast feed system to keep up with the F/A, and they came up with the Star Feed system. The Star Feed system came only on the Tippmann Factory F/A markers and used spring tension to load paintballs into the breech each time the bolt opened when a shot was fired. The paintballs rest in the gap of the star arm and as the bolt opens, the feeder turns one stepand loads a paintball into the breech. The main problems were that the F/A had some timing issues with the delay sears and shocks so the marker could fall out of time and become a blender and everytime you filled the hopper, you had to turn a crank on the bottom of the Star Feed that wound the pring so the marker could fire another 150 rounds before doing it all over again. These problems were solved by Tippmann by linking the Star Feed to a gas powered piston and thus the Cyclone Feed System was born. The cyclone Feed System works by directing a small portion of the excess blowback gas released by the CVX valve into a piston which forces the cyclone to turn one step. So each time you pull the trigger a paintball is force fed into the chamber and ready for firing again. No matter how fast you shoot, the cyclone loads the next ball just as fast. A common misconception about the Cyclone is that it sucks up extra gas, this is not true, the Cyclone requires a small amount of gas that is normally wasted in the normal operation of a Tippmann blow back. The Cyclone main body is connected to the marker by a single bolt on the left and two guide pins on the right side and connected to the CVX valve via a valve tap and banjo fitting. There is also a cylinder that houses both the air piston that works the Cyclone and a manual feed knob that you use to force the first paintball into the breach at the beginning of a game. As paintballs fall into the main feed body, they fall into one of five "star slots" that effectively pre-load the next five shots and keeps them in stand-bye to be fired, just like a gumball machine. As the trigger is pulled, the cyclone advances the "star" one step, forcing the next paintball into the chamber. The Cyclone acts as a force-feed system, not just an agitating hopper and was factory tested to 16bps and it can handle every bit of that and then some, though you will have to get the Tippmann Reactive Trigger Kit or E-Grip as well as a good flowing High Pressure Air (HPA) tank to realize that potential. To see the A-5 RT w/HPA in action, CLICK HERE and then download the video. Some of the earlier Cyclone Feed Systems could malfunction when used with HPA or in markers that cycled a ton of paint on a consistant basis, so Tippmann released a Cyclone Upgrade that fixes these problems and will install it free of charge if you send the marker to them or they'll send you the parts if you feel secure enough to install them yourself. The hopper for the A-5 is a little different looking and has an odd flat face, but it functions just as well as any other hopper. There were reports of Early A-5s having hopper that would break if they took a direct hit from a paintball. These hoppers will be replaced by Tippmann for free if you do break one, and Tippmann has replaced the old plastic hopper with a stronger hopper made with thicker plastic on all new A-5s leaving the factory. Now a lot of people have been yelling about the size of the cyclone system and how much larger it is that a "normal" hopper such as a Revolution or Evolution. But the facts are that the hopper has a lower profile and is tighter to the marker than any other marker on the market. The Hopper sits a full two inches lower on the A-5 than on a Model 98 with a Revolution on it. the hopper itself is smaller than a revy, only holding slightly more than 160 rounds, but the size difference is really telling. Check out the Cyclone Size Review, also on this reviews page, to see the pictures for yourself. The Bolt System and Rate of Fire At first glance, the A-5 seems to utilize the same bolt system as the M98 and M98c but that is far from the truth, A quick look at the rear bolt reveals that it's hollowed out and isn't the same as the rear bolt on the m98. The Rear bolt is just as strong as the m98 bolt, but it's slightly heavier. This heavier bolt is intended to stop the run-away trigger that the M98 had with the RT installed, but the rate of fire isn't effected. IN fact the A-5 can fire faster than the m98 because of the trigger system and the stream-lined design. The recoil is only slightly heavier than that of the M98c and is barely noticeable for those used to non-electronic markers, however, the rate of fire is radically different. Tippmann Factory Tested the M98 to 9bps and when they released the 98C, they addressed the complaints of M98 owners about how difficult it was to upgrade the marker and tweaked 11bps out of the 98C. With the A-5, the designers went all out and came up with a marker that can actually fling 15bps mechanically. They lightened the trigger pull and reduced the play in the A-5 trigger and that, combined with the re-designed bolt system, boosted the rate of fire into "high-end" territory. Now, the average human finger can't pull the trigger 9 times a second, let alone 15, but the potential is there and can be fully recognized with an RT or E-Grip and other upgrades. Field Stripping the A-5 One of the biggest gripes everyone had with the M98 and 98C series markers was how hard it was to strip down and clean. Even the precursor of the M98, the Pro Series markers, were easier to field strip and clean. The M98 cleaning process was a comlicated and tedious process, involving springs that liked to fly off in different directions and pins that liked to fall out. The Pro Series markers had a rear sight that held the linkage arm down on both the front and rear bolt. You simply had to remove the rear sight, pop the linkage arm out, take the barrel off and remove the end cap and the rear bolt would come out and the front bolt would come out and you would clean the marker out. The A-5 is like a mix of the two concepts, allowing you to strip the marker down in less than 60 seconds. Standard cleaning and maintenance can be done by turning the velocity screw all the way in and then pulling out four quick-pull pins, removing the grip and ASA adapter and pulling the entire valve system out of the marker. Though the A-5 is still a clam-shell design like the M98 and 98C, it can be stripped down and cleaned without completely disassembling the marker. Everything in the A-5 is very modular in design. This becomes evident when fully disassembling the marker. We find that the entire trigger and sear system is a single self-contained part. No more springs flying everywhere when you strip the marker like there was with the M98 and 98C. The one-piece trigger assembly can be broken down easily for installation of a double-trigger or for maintenance sake. You'll also notice that the A-5 utilizes a completely enclosed bolt system, meaning that there are no openings to the outside anywhere on this marker except the barrel and the breech. This improves on the design of all previous Tippmann markers which have a big hole in the rear-bolt area that allowed paint and dirt and other outside contaminants into the bolt system and that could result in wear and malfunction. The A-5 is completely closed off to the outside, making it harder for anything to get inside causing problems. Upgrade Options Out of the box, the A-5 features more upgrade options for the player than any previous Tippmann marker. Built into the valve system is a vertical Tombstone adapter which will accept any regulator or expansion chamber with standard threads. This eliminates the need to upgrade the M98 and 98C to accomplish the same thing. The A-5 also features a completely removable grip frame so switching to the E-grip of new J&J Performance 45 Style Grip frame is easy as pulling two pins and changing the bottomline ASA out. The fore-grip can be moved about an inch forward or back or can be completely replaced with any number of aftermarket front grips, including an adapter by Lapco that allows you to mount the front grip at a 90 degree angle similar to the old British Sten Guns or, in paintball, the old SMG-60 and SMG-68s that Tippmann first made back at the very beginning. The front grip can also be completely removed if you so desire, quite unlike the foregrip on the M98 and M98c which is a part of the receiver body. The ASA can be removed altogether and you can run vertical if you desire or you can get the Lapco universal adapter and use ANY drop forward you want. Also worth mentioning is that the barrel threads of the A-5 are removable and exchangeable. The A-5 is shipped with a Pro-Carb barrel thread adapter which accepts almost all Pro-series barrels and well as most F-4 barrels, but if you want, you can get a series of aftermarket adapters that allow you to use spyder, m98 and other style barrels on your A-5. Overall, the A-5 was built to be even easier to upgrade than the 98C which was released primarily due to demand for a easier-to-upgrade Tippmann marker than the M98. The kits that were supposedly "drop in" for the M98 and 98C are truly drop in kits for the A-5. The RT drops into the A-5 in less than 15 minutes if you are familiar with the marker and requires very little alteration to the grip in the removing of a single tab. The E-Grip can be installed in less than a minute. The A-5 Flatline comes as a one piece modular barrel system which twists on with a quarter turn and aligns itself to the marker easier than the old style M98 or 98C Flatline. You can do just about anything to the A-5 that you can do to an M98 or 98C unless the product hasn't been released yet. The upgrades are coming out all the time so just be patient and you'll have everything you could possibly want to add to your A-5 Conclusion In conclusion, the A-5 is the next evolution in the Tippmann line of markers. It corrects the majority of complaints players had with the M98 and 98C series markers, improves on the design and performance, and and does this without sacrificing any of the Tippmann reputation for building the most reliable and durable markers on the planet. If you do find that you have a problem, Tippmann has the best customer service on the planet and you can count on them to solve it for you, often free of charge and often for the life of the marker. In fact, Take a SMG-60 to a Tippmann Trailer at a big game than they'll do everything that they can to make sure it works like new for you. The A-5 out performs the M98c in every way and holds it's own against markers twice it's price. Oh yes, the price. People are always griping about the price. Well, since it's release, the A-5 has gone from $350+ down to $225 for a stock A-5. They argue that the "A-5 is basically an M98" and "any M98 can be modified to function just like an A-5." Let's face facts here. If you buy a Model 98 Custom ($125), a vertical adapter ($25), 12 volt Evo2 hopper ($85), a quick strip thumb screw set ($15), and a FullBoar rear cocking knob ($30), you're going to have spent $280+ and guess what, you still have the same bolt system and are still only going to get 9 to 11bps without further upgrades. You might as well save the extra $30 and get an A-5 which not only looks better, but also performs better and is easier to maintain. And even A-5s with RTs are selling for around $269 now, so the price is coming down. Remember, everything new is more expensive than it should be and once they age a little the price drop inline. The A-5 is a great High-mid-level marker that can grow with you as you grow as a player. It can hang with the "big dogs" out of the box, but with a little work, you can put together a truly awesome marker. I hope this helps clear up some misconceptions about the A-5. |
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Take the Power back! It's time to Take this forum Back from the 1337 flamers, immature idiots and know-it-alls.
Founding Member: A-5 Owners Group and Special Forces Unit SAW Support Gunner |
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KRL15
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Afghanistan Five-Oh Joined: 24 December 2002 Location: Haiti Status: Offline Points: 6816 |
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Posted: 30 December 2003 at 1:13pm |
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In an effort to consolidate "Stickies", one big Thread will be started. Patticipation in this Thread is by "Invitation". Material that is placed here without consent, MIGHT be deleted. Simply Copy and Paste your original articles into this Thread as a new Post in this Thread. Then, release your current Sticky. It might be a good idea to have a LINK to your old Threads, in your new Post here. Contents & Rules,........... Topic Starter...... Moderator Staff A-5 V/S M-98C,.............. Post One........ Kreeper-X Pistols,.......................... Post Two........ <-longBow-> Automags,..................... Post Three...... FalloutMan E-Cockers,..................... Post Four....... EmVeePee Impulses........................ Post Five........ Gatyr Mech-Cockers,................ Post Six......... Simma Down!! Insight Component Engineering (ICE) Epic.. Post Seven.. Clownshooter Edited by KRL15 |
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That which does not kill you often makes you stronger.
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