Gas operated automatic PB guns? |
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brihard
Platinum Member Strike 1 - Making stuff up Joined: 05 September 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10155 |
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DMP- you have the greatest sig banner in the history of the internet. Thank you.
Smith and Wesson would be proud. |
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"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
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sneaky_sniper
Gold Member Guested - inappropriate link 01/13 Joined: 05 September 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1325 |
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hell i dunno, i havnt messed with the C-3 at all
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usafpilot07
Moderator Group FreeEnterprise's #1 Fan & Potty Mouth Joined: 31 August 2004 Location: Tokelau Status: Offline Points: 4626 |
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We'll here I am. The reason that many fields do not allow automatic fire is either (1) State laws do not allow it, this is the case in many northeasten states. (2) Insurance companies, for one reason or another decide that it is unsafe, or bad for public relations outside the paintball communty or (3) With many of todays electronic guns(not just the electro-pneumatics, but also in the case of some privately owned WAS-boards and r/t's) automatic fire is often accompanied by a ramping dwell and fps. Your standard mask is only tested up to 450-500 fps, at which point safety becomes a major issue. |
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Destroy_Boy
Member Strike 2 - idiocy Joined: 14 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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^^^
I can absolutely see the FPS limitations, that's a no-brainer. The thing that gets me is that they while feilds may not allow automatic fire (too "scary"?), they still make that option for playing in the woods on electronic guns. I'm asking why not do the same thing through a mechanical action as opposed to an electron one.
Also, since you know a great deal about paintballguns, I don't under stand why barrels have the ports on in. Someone told me that it allows the air to be moved out of the way more rapidly, but once the painball gets beyond that first set of ports, all gas pressure behind the round would dissipate. Or is it that the gas pressure realeased behind with each round is not enough to want to actually expand all the way behind the ball inside the barrel until it pushes it out? Kind of like it just fizzles out and there's not enough pressure realeased. It feels like what I said is confusing, so I'll use an example: If you took a .22 SR round and put an 6 foot long sniper barrel on it, you'll actually get far less range then you would say a 3 foot long barrel simply because the gas burns as much as it can, and cant expand any farther, so after that point the barrel just acts as friction on the bullet and slows it down. I'm saying the same thing about paintball barrels. Once the gas is blown out the side, you'd think that the barrel is just putting unneccary friction on the ball. |
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stealthy2
Member Joined: 01 December 2005 Status: Offline Points: 77 |
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"Once the gas is blown out the side, you'd think that the barrel is just putting unneccary friction on the ball."-Destroy Boy It is, but I don't think that the purpose of porting, and I don't think it does, let out all of the air. It simply releases some of the pressure behind the paintball. The reason is simple. If your paintball stops accelerating very fast then it will loose more accuracy then if you were to cause a slow decrease in acceleration. At least thats what I've been led to belive. |
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The Guy
Platinum Member Soup Can Guy Joined: 18 March 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6666 |
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all it is, is an autococker with autotrigger. |
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UV Halo
Member Joined: 19 August 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 229 |
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Destroy_Boy and anyone else-
Paintball guns are considered airguns and sports equipment by federal and state law (if they were considered firearms, they would be regulated by the ATF). There are no laws, or city ordnances that ban fully automatic airguns. You can see proof of this yourself when you look into buying fully auto airsoft guns (also considered airguns) available for sale in every state. After the SMG-60, SMG-68, paintball field insurance companies became concerned about players getting injured from fully automatic paintball guns. It wasn't the multiple bruise/welt problem that caused the fear. It was due to the fact that there was no requirement for full face masks. You were able to play with just goggles (think JT Elite's with no mask). What could, and did happen with this setup, is that multiple paintball impacts to the bottom of the goggle frame, tend to push the goggle upwards and back, exposing the eye to the following shots. A tournament player from the late 80s, and the owner/operator of American Canyon Paintball (N. California), "Magic Carpet" Bob nearly lost an eye in a similar scenario. So, the insurers refused to provide coverage for fields that allowed full-auto. After awhile, as Semi-auto ROF started to catch up, Face masks became required. But, now, industry folks realize that really high ROFs can lift up even full face masks, which is why a lot of manufacturers are now providing chin straps for the masks. The leagues care about people getting lit up for multiple reasons but, by and large, insurers don't really care anymore. It may still be on paper but, just about everybody realizes that it's a moot point with todays electronic markers. |
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
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Rambino
Platinum Member I am even less fun in person Joined: 15 August 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16593 |
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That's a bit bold and generalized... Many cities, towns, and other municipalities consider ANY airgun a "firearm" for purposes of their local ordinances - generally the kind of ordinance that prohibits the firing thereof within city limits. These ordinances generally don't specify full auto, but just prohibit firearm use entirely. |
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Destroy_Boy
Member Strike 2 - idiocy Joined: 14 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Yeah some city's specifically rule out any kind of air guns. I'd know, where I used to live, a friend of mine had the police come out in the middle of the woods and to stop him and his father from playing paintball.
He said they had their weapons drawn, but this kid tended to stretch things a bit. |
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UV Halo
Member Joined: 19 August 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 229 |
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First, I never implied that you can fire an airgun anywhere. Many
states, and cities have ordnances/laws that specifically restrict their
useage. For example, it is common in areas in the VA and CA for
the discharge of an airgun within city limits (often referred to as
'heavily populated areas') to be unlawful.
Rambino, or anyone who lives in an area (Within the U.S.) where airguns are considered firearms, please provide a link. In Virginia, nor California have I ever found a legal definition of a firearm to include airguns. For example, the post office defaults on the ATF's definition. So, you cn ship an airgun anywhere in the U.S. (that doesn't necessarily include the bottles). Consider this, if an airgun was considered a firearm, attacking someone who isn't playing wouldn't just be assault, it would at the very least, be considered 'assault with a deadly weapon', since the legal definition of deadly wepon specifically includes 'firearm'. What has happened (in many cases before the advent of paintball) city ordnances were created to specifically prohibit the use of an airgun within city limits. |
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
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The Guy
Platinum Member Soup Can Guy Joined: 18 March 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6666 |
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hmmm, in general I came to the conclussion that you first arguement self defeated itself, and I see no point.
So yeah, my explanation. The money is in electronics now. Thats why there are no more new mech full auto's. a lot of fields don't allow them but some still do. So whats the point in making a hot new complicated milsim, when you can just make another stacked tube blowback clone, and drop $15 worth of electronics in it. |
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Snake6
Platinum Member Outranked by guitarguy? Joined: 11 September 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11229 |
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Here in Chesterfield, VA the only ordinace we have concering Airguns, is that airguns cannot be discharged within 300 ft. of a occupied building. |
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Rambino
Platinum Member I am even less fun in person Joined: 15 August 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16593 |
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I looked up my local ordinance here - Sec. 9.02. While it calls them "weapons" instead of "firearms", airguns are clearly regulated the same as guns in my little town. I'm sure if I looked harder I could find a town that just lumped them into "guns" or "firearms".
You should stop dispensing legal advice now. |
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UV Halo
Member Joined: 19 August 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 229 |
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Rambino,
Remember my original point- Paintball guns are considered airguns and sports equipment by federal and state law (if they were considered firearms, they would be regulated by the ATF). Sure, an airgun can be considered a weapon. So can a baseball bat, a golf club, or even a frying pan. What I am saying is that within the U.S., the legal definition for firearm, has never included airguns. Instead, laws were created to specifically address airguns. What they did with those laws varies from city to city, state to state but, they frequently are worded very similarly to firearm laws. That however, does not make an airgun a firearm. I wouldn't ever consider myself to be giving legal advice. Neither would I take anything discussed on this board to court without verifying it through legal channels. But, I've been around paintball in different areas (CA, VA, UK), long enough (15+yrs) to have a pretty good understanding of what's going on. What really needs to happen is that people need to stop perpetuating myths without providing any proof. It's this kind of behavior that causes people to think that longer barrels have a longer range, and that there is a single barrel (not including kits) that is the best with every name brand paintball. While I cannot provide universal proof of my belief. I don't have the time (nor anyone else I imagine) to gather the applicable section of every city's ordnances), it doesn't require much to discredit. Therefore if it's not true, somebody will come along and pipe up, and I welcome that. But, since you provided one referrence (which favors my point I might add) I will provide two: VA Legislative information system: "Firearm" means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material; or the frame or receiver of any such weapon. And a relevant story- read all the way through though. I do wonder how the C3 will fall in all of this. Edited by UV Halo |
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brihard
Platinum Member Strike 1 - Making stuff up Joined: 05 September 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10155 |
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FWIW, in Canada a firearm is anything that fires a projectile in excess of 500fps. Paintball markers don't fit this, but some airsoft guns can. There are other countries with similar legislation, but much lower velocities. Australia and I think Malaysia both have laws that are prejudicial to paintball, as I recall.
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"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."
-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that. |
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UV Halo
Member Joined: 19 August 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 229 |
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Brihard- Very True, Very True. The UK used to (at least until I
left in 2000) consider full auto anything (airsoft, BB, firearms)
illegal.
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M98C- W/QwkStrpCut
Comp Air & Palmer Fatty Stab Gas-Thru Stock Lapco Sight Rail W/ADCO 30MM EDOT Qloader W/ CMS Freak SS W/Stif-Tip * Flatline * Armson Stealth |
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