Response trigger problem with A-5

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   I bought a slightly used RT kit.Installed it and it seemed to have worked well (I could dry fire in bursts at home).
When I got to the field, I realized that the cyclone feed is no longer spinning.
I messed with it for a while, eventually plugging the RT port and getting the cyclone feed to work.

I assumed that the flow between the cyclone and RT was not balanced.  RT was taking up too much.  The line was fatter to the RT then to the Cyclone.

Later, I tried to restore the RT functionality buy purchasing two separate valves that allowed me to quickly adjust the flow to each port.  But, I can no longer get RT to function at all.

Allowing full flow of air to go to the RT at the port, I fully tighten the tiny screw on the valve at the RT and I expect the trigger to be "hard to pull".  But, It's not hard to pull.   I can see the pin coming out on every shot, but it doesn't strike the trigger hard enough to feel.  It worked before, and I know how it should feel.

I cleaned and lubed the cylinder.  When i examine the cylinder by itself, I can plug the top hole with the pin extended, and feel a lot of resistance.  I changed the o-ring on top of the cylinder, where it mates to the trigger frame.

I realize that there is "an air leak somewhere".  What I am trying to understand is the theory of RT operation.
Why does restricting flow of air make it hard to pull the trigger ?
Does every shot allow the air to come into the cylinder and traps it in there ? (check valve)

Thanks in advance for any explanation.

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bigkuma Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 27 November 2015 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote bigkuma Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Response trigger problem with A-5 Posted: 27 November 2015 at 12:27am
	I bought a slightly used RT kit. Installed it and it seemed to have worked well (I could dry fire in bursts at home). When I got to the field, I realized that the cyclone feed is no longer spinning. I messed with it for a while, eventually plugging the RT port and getting the cyclone feed to work. I assumed that the flow between the cyclone and RT was not balanced. RT was taking up too much. The line was fatter to the RT then to the Cyclone. Later, I tried to restore the RT functionality buy purchasing two separate valves that allowed me to quickly adjust the flow to each port. But, I can no longer get RT to function at all. Allowing full flow of air to go to the RT at the port, I fully tighten the tiny screw on the valve at the RT and I expect the trigger to be "hard to pull". But, It's not hard to pull. I can see the pin coming out on every shot, but it doesn't strike the trigger hard enough to feel. It worked before, and I know how it should feel. I cleaned and lubed the cylinder. When i examine the cylinder by itself, I can plug the top hole with the pin extended, and feel a lot of resistance. I changed the o-ring on top of the cylinder, where it mates to the trigger frame. I realize that there is "an air leak somewhere". What I am trying to understand is the theory of RT operation. Why does restricting flow of air make it hard to pull the trigger ? Does every shot allow the air to come into the cylinder and traps it in there ? (check valve) Thanks in advance for any explanation.

tallen702 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Hipster before Hipster was cool... Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: Under Your Bed Status: Offline Points: 11851	Post Options Post Reply Quote tallen702 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 November 2015 at 11:47am
	Think of the RT system as a piston without an escape valve. The airflow coming from the blowback exhaust from the valve is entering the piston and exiting from the same tube back into the powertube body where it escapes from the gap between the striker and the tube body. In short, the input and exhaust is through the same tube. By tightening the screw on the banjo fitting, you're making it harder for that exhaust to bleed back out, hence the heavier trigger pull. The reason you're experiencing the failure of the Cyclone with the RT installed is that you're likely not drawing enough of the exhaust gasses to drive both systems at once. It's an easy fix, and with a couple of extra bucks, you can turn it into a ultra-fast paint slinger. Just follow the instructions here: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=152632&title=super-r-t-qev-tutorial
	<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>

bigkuma Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 27 November 2015 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote bigkuma Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 November 2015 at 1:32am
	Thanks for this QEV info, I'll definitely try that. But first I want get the RT to work. As part of my debugging, I actually installed the 1/8 lines and fittings. I also installed adjustable valves on each port. That way I was able to direct all of the air coming from the tube into either cyclone feed or the RT. So, when I totally close off the cyclone, I expect to get full pressure/flow into the RT. Now, I suspect that the problem is the pressure not holding in that 90 degree piece, that is inside the gun body. When I plug that with my finger, I am able to move the RT pin w/o resistance. Or, it could be the black o-ring on top of the RT cylinder input. Do you know what size that is ? (I tried to replace it with the red o-ring from the safety, it looks very similar, but it may not be the same.) Edited by bigkuma - 28 November 2015 at 1:39am

tallen702 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Hipster before Hipster was cool... Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: Under Your Bed Status: Offline Points: 11851	Post Options Post Reply Quote tallen702 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 December 2015 at 7:41am
	The whole point of the QEV info is that it specifically gives you the sizes of tubing and banjo fittings you need to increase overall air volume from the exhaust port on the power tube to both the RT and the cyclone to get them to function properly. The QEVs just make everything work more quickly. If you do the basic work (increased throughput on the banjo fitting, increased LP hose ID) you'll achieve the airflow necessary to get the RT and Cyclone working properly in conjunction with each other.
	<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>