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Cyclone Feed Problems

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SciFiGuy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 May 2014 at 7:08am
Setup: Brand new Tippman 98 Platinum Ultra Basic with e-trigger, Hammerhead barrel, cyclone feed with tech t squishy paddles and RAP-4 upgrade package (replaces all plastic internal parts with Al), remote coil and Empire 45/3000 tank.

Update: I fixed the leaky valve. It was either my valve body or the gas line where it meets the valve body; I replaced both and gently snugged it in, now it holds air just fine.

Problem: Cyclone feeder chops 1 ball for every three fired (roughly); usually happens on 3 round burst or full auto, but does rarely happen on semi auto.

Partial solution: I took apart the CF and used a dremel to sand and polish every sharp edge that could possibly come in contact with paintballs; this mitigated some of the breakage but it still happens 1 out of ten on full auto, three round burst. It is definitely chop; there is paint all over the inside of my cyclone, mostly around the exit hole.

Yet to try: The above data is using cheap left over balls from my local field; I don't even know what brand they are, but they seem a bit brittle; I need to try better paint. I ordered a chrono to make sure I'm in the proper velocity range.  I also suspect  that balls may be bouncing out of the breech and back toward the cyclone due to blow back? So I constructed something to prevent balls from bouncing all the way out, and back in the direction of the CF. CF can push balls in, no problem. I have yet to test this, but don't have high hopes.

ACT upgrade package has been ordered, should arrive this week.





Edited by SciFiGuy - 13 May 2014 at 6:48am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._C._McCarthy
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SciFiGuy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SciFiGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 7:59am
Follow up question: gravity fed hoppers have a narrow feed neck, one ball at a time, with balls above providing a downward force to keep the ball about to be fire in the chamber until the bolt pushes forward and closes the breech. I understand the concept of the cyclone: faster and synchronized feed + one ball at a time = less chop + rapid fire. This has not been the case for me. I have to wonder: if you feed one ball, essentially "firing" it toward the breech with the paddles + force of air on piston, IN THE ABSENCE OF THE KIND OF DOWNWARD FORCE that you get in gravity feeders, couldn't this cause a bit of bounce at the moment of feed? And couldn't this bounce be the source of at least some problems when it comes to chop?

Caveat: I'm a scientist but new to paintball, so this may have already been addressed and I could be totally wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._C._McCarthy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 8:11am
Are the breaks occurring in the chamber or barrel? Old paint will be a problem for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SciFiGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 8:21am
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

Are the breaks occurring in the chamber or barrel? Old paint will be a problem for sure.


I think they are occurring because the balls are getting chopped/caught between the chamber and the feed hole; I get paint all over the exit area of my cyclone (inside the cyclone), and in the 98 chamber.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._C._McCarthy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2014 at 10:24am
I have zero experience with the cyclone but you may end up with this which seems commonplace;

(Votex Mod, Lightning Rod, Squishy Paddles, QEPH)

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SciFiGuy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SciFiGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2014 at 8:19am
This is one of the biggest problems (in my opinion); look at how the ball bounces around when the cyclone shoots it into the chamber: Link (check it at about 1:50 for the best example) And this is an A5 (I think?) where the paddles are close to the chamber and mitigate the amount of movement the ball has once it's in the chamber. In a T98C, there is A LOT of space between the chamber and the paddles (i.e., the paddles provide no bounce control).


Edited by SciFiGuy - 13 May 2014 at 8:23am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._C._McCarthy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2014 at 10:52am
That will occur with just about any hopper that is near empty.   After looking at your upgrades I would make sure that your aluminum power tube does not extend past the face of the bolt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SciFiGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2014 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

That will occur with just about any hopper that is near empty.   After looking at your upgrades I would make sure that your aluminum power tube does not extend past the face of the bolt.


Oh - I'm not talking about how the balls bounce up from the paddles; I agree; without the weight of balls above, there's nothing keeping them down. I'm talking about the balls going INTO the chamber. You have to look carefully. Again, the best example is at 1:50, where the ball bounces back in the direction of the cyclone feeder.

Here's another vid - albeit these are reballs. Same thing - lots of motion after the ball get's pushed into the chamber. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0x8ObgG2yU


Edited by SciFiGuy - 13 May 2014 at 7:35pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._C._McCarthy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 8:57am
Try putting the Tippmann internals (bolt/powertube) back in and see if it behaves differently.  Several people have had performance problems with non-stock internals in their markers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SciFiGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2014 at 7:09pm
Had an idea for a device that prevents ball "bounce-age" inside the chamber and cobbled together a prototype. I only had 1000psi left in my HPA tank, so I couldn't do a major test. Plus I'm still using old paint I got from the local field. Installed my ACT bolt and my prototype anti-bounce, then cycled two hundred balls through at full auto.

Results: one barrel break, which occurred halfway down the barrel (no paint in either the chamber or the cyclone feeder). This is a huge improvement. Next I'll take my prototype to the field and use it under real conditions to see how it does. I do not think the improvement is a result of the ACT installation because I saw no shots skipped (assuming that's what happens if the ACT closes the front bolt on a half-seated ball).

Update (5/19/14): Played 3 hours yesterday wtih my setup and chrono'd it to 280-290 fps. NO CHOP!!! Was at a field, however, that only allowed semi auto, so the entire day was spent without being able to test the cyclone in fully auto mode. Still, I fired 4-5 pods (140 each) without a single chop, which is awesome. It was chopping on semi auto when I originally set it up with the cyclone. I'll post an image of my anti-bounce device once I'm sure it works. Baby steps....


Edited by SciFiGuy - 19 May 2014 at 7:35am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._C._McCarthy
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