syphon tank (not anti syphon)

well I have been having problems with my anti syphon tank getting extremely cold when I shoot a lot. Then the pressure drops as does the fps which makes the flatline useless.

I was doing some searches on another forum when someone mentioned using a syphon tank on blowback type guns like the tippmanns. this would be the exact opposite of using anti syphon. The idea is to pull the liquid into the gun and let it expand in the barrel. Thus the tank never gets cold and the pressure and fps stay consistent.

It seems that these types of tanks were the norm in the early ninetys. But fell out of fashion when the higher end guns came around because they will not work on them and if you do this with like say an angel you will kill the gun. Plus the hpa tanks were around and they can make more money on them.

Needless to say I was confused. Everything I read says the worst thing for a gun is letting the liquid from co2 get into the gun. That is why they have expansion chambers and such. But the guy giving the info was a long timer and very knowledgable. A lot more knowledgable than me. He suggested I call Tippmann. So I did....

The support guy at Tippmann said that this is absolutely true and it will not harm my A-5 in any way. Just keep the gun well maintained (cleaned and oiled) and using a syphon tank will yield the results described. Consistent velocity, pressure and fps. No shootdown when rapid firing and will also work better in the cold. It is the low cost solution next to hpa. Sure you will blow freeze smoke out the gun but who cares.

I found all of this very interesting and was curios if anyone here uses a similar setup?

in the cold it would work great. it would keep your velocity high and normal, but you would get a lot less shots per fill. if you use it in the warm your velocity will be out of control and could be dangerous. good idea for winter though. you can use the same setup as an anti-siphon, only the straw is sticking down.

Well I put my anti syphon on but with the tube facing down instead of up. I dry fired the gun, leaning on the rt quite a bit. Seemed to work good. Some frost on the cyclone and rt lines but nothing major. I am going to setup with it like this tomorrow and chrono it and I wil report back on consistency of fps.

whoa, good luck with the R/T on that.

Lets start with the question of whether it will harm things? Actually, there really isn't much to a Tippmann that it even could damage, and is the same for all pumps and most older markers (except for possibly some issues with O-rings, but that really is minor). Its just the electric markers that are too sensitive. Expansion chambers are designed to increase consistency, not prevent damage. You can only "perfectly" calibrate your marker if you are getting either 100% liquid or 100% gas. your normal tank can suck in a combination. By using anti-syphons, remote lines, expansion chambers, stabilizers, etc., you are trying to provide time & space for the mixed liquid/gas to convert fully to a gas.

Turning the tube downward may not be enough to guarantee constant liquid flow. It will probably suck in the gasseous CO2 as you're running around. And since the liquid is providing a consistent higher velocity (at less efficiency) compared to the gasseous CO2, you have had to regulate your marker for this situation. So as the valve gets little shots of gas instead of liquid, it doesn't have the pressure to operate consistently.

As for the temperature ... that's totally normal. All the old SMG series markers (SMG-60, SMG-68 & 68-Special) had to use liquid to provide consistent velocity in rapid fire. Many people still use liquid in pump markers to provide increased consistency (much less efficiency, but that's not their goal). It is normal to fire an SMG full-auto and have it frost all over the reciever tube, upper reciever and even the barrel. I shoot "snow" out of the barrel all the time in rapid fire situations.

The only "bad" thing to be concerned about is if too much frost builds up on the lines it will insulate the line and slow down the conversion from liquid to gas, causing seperate inconsistencies for the cyclone and R/T. This could cause some chopping and may make it difficult to find the sweet spot as it could change as you rapid fire. An eGrip may be a better option.

Summer is not a problem, except that the liquid will change to gas faster at the beginning when the marker is warm and slow down the more you rapid fire. I used my syphon tanks all last summer in good and bad weather on my SMGs/68-Specials. The biggest problem I have with syphon tanks in the summer is that you do get what seems like a HUGE cloud at times. It can give away your position if you've taken the time to set up a good ambush spot and has occasionally been an issue in targetting. But in the winter it is the only way to use CO2. Gas systems lose velocity as you rapid fire and the marker / lines get cold. The liquid is already colder than the outside air (if its not you shouldn't be playing there) and will stay at a consistent pressure even after rapid fire. 

Edit ... For more info, check out this article from Doc's Machine Shop: http://www.docsmachine.com/tech/liquid.html

Edited by Arbites