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How to make a good support marker out of a A5?
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Freedom_Fighter View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 April 2009 at 2:10pm
Im farely new to paintball and want to build a support marker out of my A5(lots of paint real fast) so high BPS and good gas system is key.
So i need to know what are good internals to use (bolts, valves, tubes, hammers), what i need for the gas system (expansion chambers, CO2 or HPA, regulators, drop forward, ect...), and which trigger system i should go with (response trigger, E-grip, ect...)  Any input on good parts that you have experience with that can help me out would be good too.

Thanks
Setup- Tippmann A5 w/ UMP shroud. Nothing fancy... yet.
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Mack View Drop Down
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Stick with the stock internals, add the largest hopper you can find (I think someone makes a 400 round one now) and add an e-grip.  Barrel selection will be determined whether you will be doing close fire support (in which case I'd recommend a J&J) or supporting from farther back (in which case I'd recommend a Flatline).

The full auto provided by the e-grip will make keeping fire in a specific area a wee bit easier but there is no need to have the rate of fire maxed.  A steady stream of paint at 6 bps will keep someone's head down as well as faster rates of fire.  (Actually, I've provided support with mechanical semi; constant incoming fire will keep most peoples heads down at slower rates than you would expect.)  The slower rates also make your paint last longer.
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for range i would go for a flatline, but with an e-grip set at a high ROF, the balls will break inside the barrel because friction will slow the speed they leave the barrel than when they enter, and the balls will have a higher chance of hitting each other in the barrel. thats what happened to my friend with his e-gripped flatlined A-5. when he put the stock grip back on and fired as fast as he could, everything was fine. i personally dont have an A-5, and if i did i wouldnt get the flatline because with how tippmann creates backspin causes the ball in the barrel to hit more areas in the barrel a lot more than normal(since it requires smaller bore balls to create backspin) thus decreasing accuracy. but if accuracy isnt as important to you, get the flatline and an e-grip set at about 6-8 balls per second. constant slow streams of paint on a target will keep them down much longer than a short fast rope of paint on the same target.
 
if youre going for closer range, then yes, get maybe a 14" barrel or so. with cosntant fire, get HPA. it wont freeze up at all when you shoot rapid streams of paint. if you want you could polish the internals which should reduce friction.
also what may be good news to you is opsgear makes a muzzle brake that increases the noise your marker makes, and people often stay down because it could be just you with a really fast but loud gun when they think there may be 3 or 4 people shooting a ton of paint.
 
for a hopper you could take the biggest hopper you can find, then cut some areas around the front and stick a pod there which should give you another 150 rounds or so (or you could buy a pinochio hopper(i think it's called) which is the same thing). for pods what you could do is you could go to special ops vest builder, buy as many of the biggest pod packs as you can, go to opsgear, buy the molle butt pack which should hold about 10 pods, and buy a small backpack or soemthing and fill it with pods. the vest should hold about 10 pods plus a tank if you want, the molle pack will hold another 10, and the backpack can hold up to about maybe another 10-20 pods. so you should have alot of paint so you run out of air before you run out of paint. another thing you could do is you could buy a tank pouch ont he same vest, then buy another tank pouch that hooks to your leg. have a remote coil on both tanks, so when one tank runs out you switch coils to a full tank. a 3000psi tank should give you about 1000 shots off or so, then a second tank would let you go through a case if youre wanting to put that much support fire down.
 
the pod thing is what i suggested to my friend, cause he wants to make a machine gun type marker then get a whole bunch of pods so he runs around the field giving people ammo when they run low inscenario games, or so he can lay down enough support fire to make himself broke within 5 minutes.
 
just some ideas with what you said you wanted to do...
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Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

for range i would go for a flatline, but with an e-grip set at a high ROF, the balls will break inside the barrel because friction will slow the speed they leave the barrel than when they enter, and the balls will have a higher chance of hitting each other in the barrel.

While the part about friction affecting velocity in the F/L is generally true, there are quite a few considerations you are ignoring with this statement:
  • The balls do not instantly accelerate from 0 to 275 fps.  They work their way up to that speed over the length of the barrel.
    • This means they enter the barrel and gain speed as they move through it.
    • This also means that it is possible for the balls to still be accelerating as they exit the barrel depending upon relationship between amount of propellant released and the rate of release.
  • In cases where the propellant amount/release rate ratio does allow the balls to slow near the end of the barrel due to friction all the balls are generally being affected the same way.  This makes it unlikely that there will be an in-barrel collision because as the trailing balls are slowing at the same rate as the leading balls.
  • The A5 F/L is approximately 10" long.  At velocities of 275 fps (3300 inches/second) each ball spends approximately 0.003 seconds in the barrel.  This means it would require a rate of fire of at least 300 rounds/second to even have two balls in the barrel at the same time.
  • In other words, F/L friction is not going to cause in-barrel paint collisions.
  • It is much more likely that your friend's problems were caused by one of the following:
    • Old paint which was too fragile/swollen/out of round for the barrel.
    • Excessive initial velocity that caused the paint to break at the beginning of the F/L where it hits the "ramp" and changes direction abruptly.  (This location is a prime source of breaks in the F/L with good paint.  Breaks here are usually indicative of excess velocity.)

thats what happened to my friend with his e-gripped flatlined A-5. when he put the stock grip back on and fired as fast as he could, everything was fine.

This does not mean the balls were breaking because of the F/L.  The rate of fire could have been sufficient to turn the Cyclone hopper into a blender which was loading already damaged paint.  The rate of fire could have caused air-starvation which caused the cylcone to feed incorrectly and led to chopping/misfeeds.

i personally dont have an A-5, and if i did i wouldnt get the flatline because with how tippmann creates backspin causes the ball in the barrel to hit more areas in the barrel a lot more than normal(since it requires smaller bore balls to create backspin)

You really have no clue what you're talking about.  It requires a larger bore to create the backspin because of the room required to allow the paintballs to spin along one side as they move through the barrel.

thus decreasing accuracy.

Yes, backspin barrels are generally less accurate.  Part of this is due to the spin imparted on the ball by the barrel and is the trade-off for additional range.  However, part of it is also due to the fact that paintballs are slow-moving and imperfect projectiles which are easily affected by environmental factors such as wind and that the effects of such factors become more pronounced over increased distances.  (Oh, and tighter bored barrels are usually considered to be more accurate; although they are less forgiving on paint.)

but if accuracy isnt as important to you, get the flatline and an e-grip set at about 6-8 balls per second. constant slow streams of paint on a target will keep them down much longer than a short fast rope of paint on the same target.

True.
 
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i stand by what i said.
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Good for you, but it doesn't make you less wrong.

Edited by Mack - 09 April 2009 at 3:57pm
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I would love to know what size 3k psi tank you have that will give you 1000shots on a Tippmann A5. If you go by the standard of 10 shots/ci on a 3k psi tank, you would have to have approx a 100ci  tank. I hope you eat your Wheaties on the day you plan on playing. Especially is you plan on carrying around two of them... and a case of balls.
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Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

for range i would go for a flatline, but with an e-grip set at a high ROF, the balls will break inside the barrel because friction will slow the speed they leave the barrel than when they enter, and the balls will have a higher chance of hitting each other in the barrel.
 That is incorrect.  By that logic, wouldn't the following paintballs also slow down to the same speed as the ones before it?  There would be no way the paintballs would collide inside the barrel. 
Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

thats what happened to my friend with his e-gripped flatlined A-5. when he put the stock grip back on and fired as fast as he could, everything was fine.
I assume that your friend's Cyclone Feeder was stock, meaning no upgrades.  When you have an Egrip firing above the 13-15bps (probably somewhere near 20bps) what your friend was experiencing was 'blender action'.  If the bolt wasn't chopping the paint, it was breaking inside cyclone.  To achieve a reliable high rate of fire, the Cyclone must be upgraded.
Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

i personally dont have an A-5,
Hence the reason you don't know what you're talking about?
Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

if accuracy isnt as important to you, get the flatline and an e-grip set at about 6-8 balls per second.
You don't need an Egrip to fire 6-8bps.  That can be easily achieved with the stock trigger.
 
*Whups.  Should have read the entire thread through before replying.  Mack summed everything up rather well as always.


Edited by StormyKnight - 11 April 2009 at 8:48am
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Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I would love to know what size 3k psi tank you have that will give you 1000shots on a Tippmann A5. If you go by the standard of 10 shots/ci on a 3k psi tank, you would have to have approx a 100ci  tank. I hope you eat your Wheaties on the day you plan on playing. Especially is you plan on carrying around two of them... and a case of balls.
I have two 114/3000 tanks that achieve around the 1000 shot range.  I can't imagine carrying a spare one to swap out in the middle of the game.  Those tanks are NOT small.
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Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

*Whups.  Should have read the entire thread through before replying.  Mack summed everything up rather well as always.


I thought so as well, but thanks for noticing.  However, if you hadn't posted I wouldn't have had the opportunity to chuckle at the comment below.

Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

i personally dont have an A-5,
Hence the reason you don't know what you're talking about?
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Well, I mulled over the punctuation on that particular sentence.  Ending it with a period seemed kind of harsh.  Ending it with a question mark didn't make it as bad, but lacked a certain seriousness.  The exclamation point would have been prickish.  Definitely didn't want to end it with 'Duh.' by itself, because that seemed inflammatory (flaming) which could have been strike-worthy.  So, I wussed out and used the '?'.  In hindsight, a string of periods could've worked.  (...)  Might consider that for next time.
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holy crap guys i was just trying to give someone my opinion on how i THOUGHT a-5's worked but my god. i was just trying to say the most technical answers i could with what knowledge i do have for a-5's but apparently that isnt good enough for you!
 
 
attacking what i say and what i believe happened is only going to make things betetr for anyone. i know i don't know everything about an a-5 but what i do know is the most basic things that i would ever care about for a marker i dont care for at all.
 
 
my god, you people are unforgiving for the littlest things
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Perhaps, it would be better to stick with what you know, not what you think. Pulling incorrect technical info out of your rear will get you and the person you are replying to nowhere. Thinking is better suited to the T&O section. Or not.

Edited by oldpbnoob - 13 April 2009 at 8:56am
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Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

holy crap guys i was just trying to give someone my opinion on how i THOUGHT a-5's worked but my god. i was just trying to say the most technical answers i could with what knowledge i do have for a-5's but apparently that isnt good enough for you!
Look at the first paragraph in your reply.  Nowhere in there do you make mention on how you thought  an A-5 operated with a Flatline barrel and Egrip.  It came across as being truth in fact.
 
Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

attacking what i say and what i believe happened is only going to make things betetr for anyone.
These were not attacks.  They were corrections.  When you pass on bad information or fallacious reasoning, it begs to be refuted.
Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

what i do know is the most basic things that i would ever care about for a marker i dont care for at all.
You care about something you don't care about at all?  You lost me there.
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Originally posted by Shenkyei Rambo Shenkyei Rambo wrote:

holy crap guys i was just trying to give someone my opinion on how i THOUGHT a-5's worked but my god. i was just trying to say the most technical answers i could with what knowledge i do have for a-5's but apparently that isnt good enough for you!

No, it isn't.  If you don't know how something works you should not offer advice on items related to that subject.  Doing so can cause problems for those that assume you possess knowledge on the subject and decide to take your advice.  (Opinions =/= facts.)
 
 
attacking what i say

As pointed out earlier, a correction is not an attack.

and what i believe happened is only going to make things betetr for anyone.

I don't know about making things better for everyone, but I am certain it will make things better for those who might have taken your previous statements as fact and made their marker/equipment selections based upon those statements.

 i know i don't know everything about an a-5

Then you should refrain from offering advice related to them.

but what i do know is the most basic things that i would ever care about for a marker i dont care for at all.
 
Huh?

my god, you people are unforgiving for the littlest things

I can't speak for others, but I consider it to be an intolerance for the spreading of incorrect information as opposed to being "unforgiving."
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I don't think It's been said yet, so here it goes...
 
Be carefull about how amped up you make your marker (At least if you are playing on a regulated field, or a reffereed woodsball corse) Most fields and corses have a REGULATION GUIDE to "Maximum BPS, Maximum FPS, and other key factors." (It would be a real bummer to spend your time and money for somthing you can't even bring out on the field. :( So not saying don't buy any upgrades, just think carefully, and talk to your field officials. :)
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I have only ever had one field tell me that I couldn't run full auto on my E-grip.  So I switched it to semi. Problem solved.
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