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Audio Chronograph

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pattison View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pattison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2006 at 1:20pm
If you shoot across the laptob/mic you should be able to forget mach correction. By shoot across, i mean pc at 5 metres, target at 10 metres.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2006 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by pattison pattison wrote:

If you shoot across the laptob/mic you should be able to forget mach correction. By shoot across, i mean pc at 5 metres, target at 10 metres.


I thought of that, but you still have to account for the distance from the gun to the mic and the wall to the mic. So its going to be the same as when the mic is right next to the barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pattison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2006 at 3:52pm
I disagree, you want audacity to simulate "real time", but when the mic is on the barrel, the impact time is offset (sound delay). However when it is in the middle, both the muzzle sound and the impact sound are delayed by the same amount (assuming mic is in the middle). Think of it as +1/60sec correction for muzzle and +1/60sec for impact, cancelling each other out. It makes sense to me, correct me if I am wrong. All my method does is avoid a little math and put a laptop in the line of fire.

Really I am just talking out my a** here, it would be way more practical to have the laptop at the same place as the gun. If you use sheet metal as a target you can be sure to get a good sound footprint at 5-10m so there would be no advantage to having mic in the middle.

Edited by pattison - 16 July 2006 at 4:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2006 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by pattison pattison wrote:

I disagree, you want audacity to simulate "real time", but when the mic is on the barrel, the impact time is offset (sound delay). However when it is in the middle, both the muzzle sound and the impact sound are delayed by the same amount (assuming mic is in the middle). Think of it as +1/60sec correction for muzzle and +1/60sec for impact, cancelling each other out. It makes sense to me, correct me if I am wrong. All my method does is avoid a little math and put a laptop in the line of fire.


Na, you have to account for sound traveling faster than the ball coming at you, then the speed of sound after it hits the wall. So essentially, the speed of sound is still factord for the total distance. doppler affect does screw things up a bit, that why Id rather just put the mic next to the barrel.


Edited by Monk - 16 July 2006 at 4:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Olcaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2006 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by pattison pattison wrote:

I disagree, you want audacity to simulate "real time", but when the mic is on the barrel, the impact time is offset (sound delay). However when it is in the middle, both the muzzle sound and the impact sound are delayed by the same amount (assuming mic is in the middle). Think of it as +1/60sec correction for muzzle and +1/60sec for impact, cancelling each other out. It makes sense to me, correct me if I am wrong. All my method does is avoid a little math and put a laptop in the line of fire.


    My mic was in the middle of the line of fire. The sound of both the shot and splat take time to get to the mic, they both make the length of the shot seem longer. They do not 'cancel out'. Wherever the mic is you will need to subtract the time it takes sound to travel the entire distance of your shot from your measured time.

Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

doppler affect does screw things up a bit, that why Id rather just put the mic next to the barrel.


    I believe that doppler effect only matters if you are interested in the sound that the ball (or any object) makes while it is moving relative to the mic. The only sounds were are interseted im are not(tree and gun.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pattison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2006 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Olcaddy Olcaddy wrote:


My mic was in the middle of the line of fire. The sound of both the shot and splat take time to get to the mic, they both make the length of the shot seem longer. They do not 'cancel out'. Wherever the mic is you will need to subtract the time it takes sound to travel the entire distance of your shot from your measured time... The only sounds were are interseted im are not(tree and gun.)


Naw, think about it, if your mic really was at the halfway point of the trajectory, consider this:
You pull trigger: this is +0seconds
audacity "hears" you fire: happens at t+.017sec (assuming ~5m GUN dist to mic)
actual impact: +.1sec
audacity hears impact: +.117sec (assuming 5m TARGET dist to mic)
Total flighttime: Actual= 0.1-0 =0.1 Audacity= 0.117-0.017 =0.1
If the mic is equal distance from the gun and target speed of sound time gets cancelled out, I promise.
Alright, this is my last post, I've got to try to keep physics to myself. Hope noone tries to tell me that cockers shoot farther.

Edit: And yeah, doppler applies when waves are emitted from an object that is moving relative to you.

Edited by pattison - 16 July 2006 at 5:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2006 at 6:20pm
Doppler would matter if we worried about pitch, does that count. lol

Ok, I think I see what your saying. But audacity wouldnt hear it at +.117, it would hear it at +.134. because the need to account for the time it takes sound to get to you after the impact.


Edited by Monk - 16 July 2006 at 6:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2006 at 8:42pm
This is a great idea, If you had a VERY simple program set out for this you could probably market it somehow. The only problem with this is that, People are Idiots. You are smart. If the majority of the paintball world used this method it would be a disaster though, due to the complexity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cardboardninja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2006 at 7:15pm
If the mic is exactly in the middle, you will not have to account for sound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Olcaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2006 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by cardboardninja cardboardninja wrote:

If the mic is exactly in the middle, you will not have to account for sound.


    At first I did not believe that this was true. However, after looking into it a bit I now agree. From now on when I use this method I will place the mic at the gun and use the simple formula to account for sound. I still would greatly appreciate anyone with a chronograph to compare this method.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pooperscooper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2006 at 10:05pm
This is awesome. I love physics.

*goes to buy mic*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Olcaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2006 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by pooperscooper pooperscooper wrote:

This is awesome. I love physics.

*goes to buy mic*


    Well just to let you know if you have some headphones you can use them as a mic. Trust me, or try it yourself, just plug your headphones into the mic port. The sound will not be as clear as with a mic and quality varies depending on the headphones. I would suggest putting the headphones by the splat because they may not pick up the quieter sound from far away. I would reccomend a mic but this method works in a pinch and is better than shooting hot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2006 at 1:52am
Ugh, i need to take a break. Between my accounting of my checkbook in my head, and trying to figure out why my generator wont recharge the bugs battery. My brain is fried.

Ill attempt to understand all this whoha some other time. For now, I concede defeat. lol.

But the idea for the chrono still remains...Kickass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2006 at 2:56pm
Our PACT Timer does something like this. Normally they just measure the amount of time between each shot to calculate the BPS of your gun.  But some of the higher-end ones also give you the velocity of he gun you're check. I know it's not a chrono because you can do it at a distance. So, even though you have a really good thought, I think it's unfortunetly already been taken.
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