overall lightest pull...
Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Upgrades and Customizing
Forum Description: Trick it out!
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=111117
Printed Date: 04 February 2026 at 8:40pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: overall lightest pull...
Posted By: benttwig33
Subject: overall lightest pull...
Date Posted: 19 August 2004 at 6:50pm
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ok so here is how it is...
if anyone has seen at model98.net i have my own rubberband mod there(mods under viewer submitted mods) im experimenting, my mod makes the pull very light but i also have the clicky pen mod... i have had my pull lighter than it is now and it isnt right, so anyone know what kind of springs or anything would make it the overall lightest?(length and stuff like that.) i need help with ym experiments thanks!  ------------- Sig is WAY too big. |
Replies:
Posted By: scull20
Date Posted: 19 August 2004 at 7:24pm
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You could make a trigger stop to keep the length to a minimum. When it comes to the trigger return spring why not just take it out. The sear is what is doing all of the trigger reseting so there is no need for it.
-scull ------------- "Nyquil comes in two colors, red and green. It's the only thing on the planet that tastes like red and green." - Lewis Black |
Posted By: benttwig33
Date Posted: 19 August 2004 at 7:27pm
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dude you dont know what your talking about.
1.TRIGGER STOPS DO NOT WORK WELL ON MECHANICAL GUNS i dont see what people dont get, it will only slow oyu down, down beleive me? go try it yourself. 2.the sear does not reset the trigger, the TRIGGER RETURN SPRING does the returning. 3. the sear spring is what resets the sear. now please post if you know what all about springs and stuff i want opinions from others experienced with trigger mods. ------------- Sig is WAY too big. |
Posted By: 98c - baller
Date Posted: 19 August 2004 at 8:42pm
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i have to disagree a trigger stop does help and wont slow u down, yes i have one ------------- |
Posted By: Die-Trying
Date Posted: 19 August 2004 at 9:00pm
dude if you can make the trigger pull lighter you would be my hero i will play around with my marker and see it i can't make the trigger pull lighter.------------- Ion sanded and bondo'd body Orange painted body and frame Dead On Bullet Drop Evo II 68/4500 crossfire Evil pipe kit with ultra tip |
Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 19 August 2004 at 9:12pm
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I have a trigger stop on my mech mag. It really helps reduce trigger slop. All it does is prevent you from pulling the trigger any farther back than you need. Doing that will let you shoot faster whether the gun is mech or electro.
Oh, and yes the sear does reset the trigger. You don't need the trigger spring. Take out the trigger spring and reassemble the gun. The trigger will still set after each shot. Now here's a concept for reducing trigger pull on a 98 or any tippmann for that matter. Make the trigger pneumatic. Just like the HAIR trigger or the Punishers Customs pneumag mod for AutoMags. Here's what it would entail: Instead of the trigger tripping the sear, a pneumatic ram would. The section of the trigger that the sear comes in contact with would be removed. Instead, the trigger would actuate a reverse 3-way when pulled. The 3-way would be seated behind the trigger and when the trigger is pulled, the 3-way valve would open and send gas to the ram. The ram would then trip the sear. Of course there would be an lpr to regulate gas going into the 3-way also. The reason this would be lighter is it would take less force to open the 3-way valve than to push back on the sear. This system would be similar to the old electronic sear tripper kit for the M98. But instead of a microswitch/board controlling the solenoid/plunger, a 3-way would control the ram. With extensive modification and the right parts I bet it could work... ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: SnakeEyes
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 8:11am
WRONG! The less time you waste on pulling the trigger after it has released the sear, the faster you can shoot. Think of it this way, if you are running the 100M dash, and you decide to start 10M back your going to lose to someone who is just as fast as you.
WRONG AGAIN! I DO NOT have a trigger return spring and my trigger resets just as fast as your gun. Think about it again, the sear rests on the back of the trigger. The sear is pushed back by the rear bolt by the rear spring, so thus the sear would have to push the trigger back to its initial position as well. Study the Tippmann internals better and you will see that.
You are correct here. If your sear spring is too light, your sear won't reset fast enough and you will get stutters in firing. Don't think I know what I am talking about, try this. My trigger pull on a fully unassisted mechanical Tippmann 98C is 6 ounces and I can shoot it 13bps. The trick to a lighter trigger pull is to reduce the amount of pull weight required to release the sear while keeping the pull distance as short as possible. I acheived this by some sear reshaping and some spring reworking. Play around and you can get it. ------------- Which falls faster, a lead ball or your IQ after reading some of these posts? http://www.pennstatepaintball.com" rel="nofollow - PSU Paintball |
benttwig33 wrote:Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 9:33am
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How did you get it to 6 ounces? The average weight of an electro pull is 4-5oz. Did you actually measure it or are you just guessing?
And no one comments on my pnuematic idea??? I'm hurt... ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: SnakeEyes
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 9:51am
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I measured the pull using a fish scale. Granted I know it's not horribly accurate, but it still gives a pretty good reading.
I am actually still thinking about your pneumatic idea. Quite interesting. That sounds like something right up my alley and keeping with my wish to not have anything other than my hopper with a battery in it. I bet I could pull it off. Gimme some time, and we will see. ------------- Which falls faster, a lead ball or your IQ after reading some of these posts? http://www.pennstatepaintball.com" rel="nofollow - PSU Paintball |
Posted By: LordJovian
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 10:17am
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warbreak 2099- here's a comment on your idea- so you'd have to run another air supply line through the gun? I don't think thats worth the work because opneing a valve would also require a certain amount of force on the trigger, so you'd be in the same boat. The E-grip (electronic) just makes contact with a metal tab the closes the circuit, requiring very very little force. The only thing there is the spring- give it the clicky pen, and it would screw it up more than help because it needs something to reset it. Notice how the stock trigger has a small spring under a metal plate- the E-grip trigger does not. ------------- A-5 E-grip Chipley Custom Carbon Graphite 16" Evil Adapter(Spyder) 32 Deg New '03 XChamber Remote Line Gun Sling Sniper f/x Stock LPK 68/4500 HPA R-5 CP Reg JCS Duel Trigger |
Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 10:23am
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I don't think you understood when you read my idea. Opening the 3-way would require less force than pushing back on the sear. Depending on the 3-way you can get the pull down to around 4-6oz. The Deadly Wind HAIR pneu system is 2-4oz. They might have done something extra though.
And no there would only be one air supply. Just like on an ebolt there would be an lpr connected to the asa. I'm not saying it would be better than the egrip. The advantage is, no batteries. And for the last time my name isn't Warbreak2099 is Warbeak2099. There's no "r" after the b. ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: maroon out
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 10:29am
Already ahead of you on the idea Warbeak.  It's about halfway done, as of right now. Just have to order a ram from Clippard with a really short throw, mount it, and it'll be pretty much done.------------- Watch your thoughts they become words Watch your words they become actions Watch your actions they become habits Watch your habits they become character Watch your character it becomes your destin |
Posted By: You Wont See Me
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 12:27pm
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Sounds good maroon. Let us know how it works out for you. ------------- A-5 E-Grip JCS Dual Trigger DOP X-CORE 8 stage x-chamber Lapco Bigshot 14" Beadblasted Optional setup: R/T Dead on Blade trigger |
Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 1:55pm
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Cool maroon! What kind of 3-way did you use? It had to be one with an actuating rod that needs to be pushed in instead of pulled out right? After you're done please post pics. That sounds awesome. I've got other questions but I'll wait till you're done. Even if it doesn't work/doesn't work well please make another post in the gallery with pics and info!!! ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: whiteknight457
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 2:13pm
| Trigger stops do affect your rof depending on your finger speed. and hes right take your return spring out, it'll reset itself due to the sear. so actually bentwig, you dunno what you are talking about. |
Posted By: -=Headwound=-
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 2:24pm
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^^^Ohhh Burn!!!!^^^
------------- Tippmann 98 Custom GTA Response Trigger Crossfire 68ci 4500psi Palmers Stabilizer Male Halo Frontman Smoke LED 12" All American Smart Parts Wood Grip Grey VForce Profiler |
Posted By: maroon out
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 2:40pm
Lol, I don't even know what kind of 3-way it is, I bought it for $5. I'm pretty sure that with the adjustment collar, you could make it a pull or push 3-way (you'd also have to switch the hoses). I'll be sure to post pics, and maybe even a video if I can get a hold of a digital video camera. ------------- Watch your thoughts they become words Watch your words they become actions Watch your actions they become habits Watch your habits they become character Watch your character it becomes your destin |
Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 2:54pm
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Oh, ok. So you just need to adjust a 3-way and make it a push. Wait, you said you're pretty sure. Does that mean you haven't done it yet? I thought you had already done the mod and you just needed a ram. Have you mounted the 3-way yet? ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: maroon out
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 3:13pm
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The LPR and 3-way are mounted, I just haven't put in the actuating rod and collar and tried to time it yet. ------------- Watch your thoughts they become words Watch your words they become actions Watch your actions they become habits Watch your habits they become character Watch your character it becomes your destin |
Posted By: ziggymarley
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 4:04pm
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yah, just switch the 3way hoes to switch from push to pull....
maroon: PICTURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ------------- "Real markers have gills." "son of a <KRL>." |
Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 4:07pm
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Just a matter of switching hoses, coolness. But how, whoch hoses go where? The hose from the lpr goes into which barb on the 3-way? ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: maroon out
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 4:54pm
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The hose from the LPR goes to the middle barb, the left barb on the 3-way goes to the front of the ram, and the right barb goes to the back of the ram.
That way, when the trigger is at rest, there is air flowing to the front of the ram, keeping the piston at the bottom of the ram. When the trigger is pulled, air is redirected to the back of the ram, then the piston moves forward which trips the sear. ------------- Watch your thoughts they become words Watch your words they become actions Watch your actions they become habits Watch your habits they become character Watch your character it becomes your destin |
Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 11:21pm
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Awesome. I might try this on my mag. I think my friend has some old stock brass front pnues from his cocker. Or wait, I think the shop stole them when they installed the freeflow front pnues on. Darn, but I will look into this on my mag.
When you say the left barb do you mean the front or rear barb? ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: pballa j.r.
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 11:54pm
wow i feel good. kinda trippin little bit 
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Posted By: maroon out
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 1:30am
Left barb = barb closest to collar on the actuating rod. When I say left or right, I'm talking when it is mounted on a er. ------------- Watch your thoughts they become words Watch your words they become actions Watch your actions they become habits Watch your habits they become character Watch your character it becomes your destin |
Posted By: nadrepadre
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 3:55am
| Anybody know if you can replace the e-grip swith with anither switch from radio shack? |
Posted By: TheHoff
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 9:12am
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Why don't I just put a 50gram trigger switch on my r/t?[sarcasim] ------------- blame it on the irish.... |
Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 11:58am
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Ah ok, so the left barb is the rear barb and the right barb is the front barb. I'm definately looking into this. What ram and 3-way would you suggest? It'd have to be a ram with a short throw right? The 3-way should be light too. Anyone know of an exceptionally light 3-way? ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: benttwig33
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 12:57pm
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ahh im not thinking at all!
i realize im wrong on most of what ive said lol but the trigger stop hurts a 98...(mechanical) they even say they dont recomenned it at model98.net ------------- Sig is WAY too big. |
Posted By: SnakeEyes
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 1:19pm
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Why, what is the basis for this? Where is the proof? Why would having to pull a trigger less of a distance make it slower to pull more times in a certain time period?
*EDIT* I just searched through model98.net, and found absolutely nothing about trigger stops slowing down mechanical guns. I did find info on a magnetic trigger being pointless on mech guns, but nothing else. Where is this and where are you getting it from Benttwig? ------------- Which falls faster, a lead ball or your IQ after reading some of these posts? http://www.pennstatepaintball.com" rel="nofollow - PSU Paintball |
Posted By: maroon out
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 5:22pm
I don't think you'd be able to use a ram from a er. The throw would be too long (probably something like a 1" throw). I was looking at a Clippard ram that had a throw of 1/4", plenty to trip the sear. On the 3-way, I've heard that the Besales 3-way has one of the shortest throws, along with the Shocktech . ------------- Watch your thoughts they become words Watch your words they become actions Watch your actions they become habits Watch your habits they become character Watch your character it becomes your destin |
Posted By: PBinfonater
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 5:47pm
all right everyone lets use our heads and realize a trigger stop sucks and a RT is a hundred times better it forces ur trigger immeadiatly back into position leabin u no time to pull back any unesesary further length, and if u totally refuse the RT simply add stronger push springs to the front of ur trigger along with a combined trigger stop but ultimatly RT is best ------------- There is no "I" in "Team", but there sure is a "Me". Tippmann A-5 RT Flatline Chrome Bullet drop with on/off Male Palmer Internal Polish Stainless Steel kit |
Posted By: Rob C
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 6:08pm
Every single field without a 100 mile radius of me doesn't allow r/t. An overpull stop is good even when you have r/t, less trigger play = better. Putting a stronger spring in front of the trigger does NOTHING but make the pull heavy, instead they should change out the slider spring if they want the trigger to push back harder. R/T is not best.. e-bolt/grip is. If they allow r/t or bounce they probebly allow full auto, so you can just hold the trigger down and not worry about sweet spotting. And if they dont you can flip it to semi and get just as fast walking. |
Posted By: warbeak2099
Date Posted: 21 August 2004 at 10:04pm
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Where might I find a Clippard ram with a 1/4" throw? ------------- MIDN 2/C, US Navy LCE-SpyderMag | G-Force Pneumatic Mag | '99 RF Sniper II |
Posted By: maroon out
Date Posted: 22 August 2004 at 4:45pm
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http://www.clippard.com/cylinders/ - http://www.clippard.com/cylinders/
Here's the one I was looking at: http://www.clippard.com/store/byo_cylinder/byo_stainless_details.asp?sku=UDR-05-1/4-N - http://www.clippard.com/store/byo_cylinder/byo_stainless_det ails.asp?sku=UDR-05-1/4-|||N ------------- Watch your thoughts they become words Watch your words they become actions Watch your actions they become habits Watch your habits they become character Watch your character it becomes your destin |
Posted By: NDbackplaya44
Date Posted: 22 August 2004 at 5:23pm
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I got this from pbstar playfront36 wrote this. it is for the 98 WARNING First off I am not responsible if you break your gun while doing this, if you dont know how to take it apart then dont even attempt this mod. In doing this mod you disable your safety so be sure to use your barrel condom or barrel plug to remain safe off the field. Also if you perform this mod on your gun...give me some feedback, I like to know how you like it or what you dislike. Giving me credit is optional but appreciated |
Posted By: SnakeEyes
Date Posted: 22 August 2004 at 5:34pm
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And it's also the most stupid. Those "tricks" are just that, tricks. The clicky pen spring is pointless because the sear will always reset your trigger anyway, clicky spring, normal spring, no spring. PERIOD.
The orthopedic bands wear out quickly and if they do break while playing you will be left with a full auto blender. Also, the larger contribution to trigger pull weight is the sear pressing against the trigger, not the sear spring all alone. If your sear spring is too light, it will again result in at best a stuttering gun and at worst a full auto blender again. And an electrical tape trigger stops, come on. Take the extra time to do it properly with either a screw in the trigger itself or in the grip. I realize this is only your 3rd post, but your borrowed ideas there aren't that great. ------------- Which falls faster, a lead ball or your IQ after reading some of these posts? http://www.pennstatepaintball.com" rel="nofollow - PSU Paintball |