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98c or a-5

Printed From: Tippmann Paintball
Category: Paintball Equipment
Forum Name: Which Gun is Best
Forum Description: Need Advice? Ask the pros.
URL: http://www.tippmannsports.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=111171
Printed Date: 23 December 2024 at 3:12pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 98c or a-5
Posted By: JJaxx
Subject: 98c or a-5
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 9:06am
I am stuck between a 98c or a a-5.  I m not sure which one to get.  I want to get a flatline for it and a car stock for either one.  But which is better for the price??  if i get an a-5 the i should get a rt trigger for it to utilize the cyclone feed.  but which sould i get??? any suggestions?  thanks



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paint'em all, let the ref's sort them out!



Replies:
Posted By: 98c - baller
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 9:33am
i say the A5

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Posted By: Bomber Brigade
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 9:43am
98custom.

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Posted By: midnightsniper
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 2:03pm

98 c if yer gona get the stock and barrel get a 14 inch j and j there great

 



Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 2:31pm
98c all the way... I thought the A5 is better but no.. no its not...  if you buy no Firepower upgrades the A5 is better but if you put the R/T or E-bolt in your 98 then it'll turn out much better then a A5.

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Posted By: 98cowboy
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 3:24pm
A5 E-grip with flatline and x chamber.


Posted By: mincussauer
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 4:22pm
        it all depends on what u want.  if u want a longrange gun with a ton of accuracy, get the 98 w/ the flatline(the a-5 with the flatline is also very accurate but not as accurate as the 98)  if u want a gun that will spray an area and shoot as fast as u pull the trigger than get the a-5(the 98 is also a very fast shooter w/ its 5mm trigger pull but not as fast as the a5)


Posted By: JJaxx
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 4:36pm
well i'm looking for long range with accuracy.  so it sounds like the 98c then.  I currently have a rebel extreme '02 electronic it shoots like crazy but doesn't help me get any more eliminations.  if i get the 98c should i get the response trigger or will i have chopping problems??  i still need help.  thanks

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paint'em all, let the ref's sort them out!


Posted By: Panda Man
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 6:50pm

This is a good first Set-up, then Add a E-bolt and your Ready to go.

Dead on.  8 Stage X-core
GTA Double Trigger
Macroline kit
Lapco 12" bigshot
12v Revvy/Richochet AK.
_______________________
Add on later:
 
E-bolt
Dye 03 Stickies
_______________________



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Posted By: JJaxx
Date Posted: 20 August 2004 at 7:10pm
what is the bps with the stock trigger on a 98c?
do i really need to up grade the trigger??


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paint'em all, let the ref's sort them out!


Posted By: Airhead67
Date Posted: 22 August 2004 at 8:40pm

98 Custom



Posted By: TheInvincible
Date Posted: 22 August 2004 at 9:33pm
98c with the E-grip or whatever.


If you get the Response Trigger then you better have yourself a nice hopper, too.


Posted By: 98sniper
Date Posted: 23 August 2004 at 2:06am

a5=230                                                                                                                           98=130 230-130=100

with the money you save on the 98 you could get a revi and teardrop barrel that works the best(imo) with the 98. and with the 130 from the flatline that you wouldn't get you could get a r/t and then you still have 50 bucks to buy whatever. this is what you where goin to get, a5,flatline, and carstock. for a total of 425 (about). well you could get a e bolt with a 98 for about 360. you would still have 65 left to get like a hopper or barrel.

 



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98c
x chamber
revi 12vlt w/x

bko
halo tsa backman
shocktech drop

soon to get
e orracle
crossfire tank
boomstic
kaner kit
egg 2 w/z board


Posted By: true~iceman
Date Posted: 23 August 2004 at 7:04am

definately the a-5

 



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Posted By: JJaxx
Date Posted: 23 August 2004 at 9:09am
well i tried an a-5 yesterday.  it rocks i going to get an a-5 with response tirgger and flatkine barrel.  I should have bought a tippmann to start with.  oh well.  

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paint'em all, let the ref's sort them out!


Posted By: 98sniper
Date Posted: 23 August 2004 at 2:00pm
i still think the 98c.

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98c
x chamber
revi 12vlt w/x

bko
halo tsa backman
shocktech drop

soon to get
e orracle
crossfire tank
boomstic
kaner kit
egg 2 w/z board


Posted By: JJaxx
Date Posted: 23 August 2004 at 3:56pm
well i am going to try to trade in my rebel for 98c to use as a back up for my a-5.

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paint'em all, let the ref's sort them out!


Posted By: CIA356
Date Posted: 23 August 2004 at 8:35pm

Don't get the 98c get the a-5 because if you ever want to go tourney level you will probably need an e-grip or e bolt and an ebolt costs way more than an e-grip and you will save alot of money in the long run with the a-5 you don't have to buy an electro hopper and the ebolt costs alot so go a-5.



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Posted By: JJaxx
Date Posted: 26 August 2004 at 9:27pm
well i don't play tourneys so thats not a problem.  I will get my 98c friday.  got i cheap only $80.    the only bad thing is the gun is silver.  oh well the price was right!

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paint'em all, let the ref's sort them out!


Posted By: dye prs
Date Posted: 27 August 2004 at 1:25am

A-5 why? well here read this. i took this off the forum.

How does the A-5 really stack up against the Model 98 Custom?
By Kreeper-X Updated 04-04-2003 Overall: 9 out of 10

I've discovered, since the release of Tippmanns' latest marker, that there are a lot of misconceptions about the A-5.

One of the first things people said, before ever even seeing one in person was that the Cyclone feeder was far too large and made for a "huge" target on the right hand side of the marker. As you will read later on in this article, that's not true at all.

The prevailing "wisdom" among those who don't own the A-5 is that it's nothing more than a "rehash of the Model 98 Custom with a fancy hopper" and that there are few, if any, improvements to the overall performance of what's looked at by many in the paintball community as "just another Tippmann blow back semi."

It is for these people that I write this article.

The Similarities

Looking strictly at the design of the marker, the A-5 is what Tippmann has perfected and does best, an open-bolt blow-back semi-automatic paintball marker utilizing Tippmanns' extremely versatile CVX valve. The design is simple and extremely durable, so much so that Tippmann has changed very little in the valve and bolt system design since the 68 Carbine was released some time ago.

Like all modern Tippmann markers, the A-5 utilizes a rear bolt that is driven forward by a drive spring and returned to the ready position by blow-back gasses. The front bolt which opens and closes the breech and releases gas into the barrel is connected to the rear bolt by a linkage arm. As the rear bolt comes forward to strike the valve pin and release the gas, the front bolt forces the paintball into the breech and seals off the barrel before releasing a burst of gas into the barrel, launching the paintball.

The A-5 also uses Tippmanns' old velocity adjustment screw which works not by changing the gas output of the valve, but creating turbulence in the power tube, slowing the air down. This system wastes some gas and a good Rear Velocity Adjuster will fix this.

The Look

Once you get past the basic operation of the A-5, the similarities with the Model 98 begin to end the differences become apparent.

The very first thing that anyone notices about the new Tippmann A-5 is the look of the marker. The M98 and M98c really didn't look all that great in my opinion but they were far from ugly (except those darned gills on the M98). The A-5 has a decidedly "real world" look to it without a hopper and tank on it, resembling an H&K MP5 right down the foregrip, cocking knob and trigger grip frame. Players need not worry about being arrested though, as the A-5 with the Cyclone and a hopper and a tank looks less like a real firearm and more like a paintball marker.

Also noticeable is the MP5 style trigger grip frame which is made primarily for right handed players. Some people prefer 45 style grips so Tippmann made the grip frame removable to accommodate 45 grips or aftermarket Lefty grip frames. J&J performance is working on an aluminum 45 style grip, and Tippmann has recently released an electronic sear tripping E-Grip. The stock A-5 grip frame is made of a plastic polymer to reduce weight, but it's not just cheap plastic, it's ballistics quality stuff and can take a serious amount of abuse.

In fact, a lot of the A-5 is "plastic" instead of aluminum both because of cost and weight. The grip frame and foregrip as well as the main cyclone body and cocking knob are plastic. This reduces weight, so it's not a bad thing, though some people are scared to death of plastic. Tippmann made this marker to last and you need not worry, it's not a Brass Eagle marker after all, it's a Tippmann Marker and we all know how Tippmann stand behind the products they make.

The overall size of the A-5 is a little longer than the M98c and a bit heaver, but this is because the M98c is weighed without a revy hopper and the A-5 has the Cyclone built in. However, due to the low profile and the fact that the hopper and Cyclone feeder fit so close to the marker, the A-5 has a better overall balance to it than the M98c.

The Cyclone Feed System

The second thing that they notice is the Cyclone Feed System, which looks like about half of a soda can with a five arm "star" agitator inside it. The Cyclone Feed System resembles the Star Feed System on the old Tippmann Factory F/A markers from the mid nineties. In fact the Cyclone is the next generation of the same feed system.

The Factory F/A was a fully mechanical Full-Auto paintball marker that, for the most part, wasn't allowed on most fields or in tourneys, and Tippmann needed a reliable and fast feed system to keep up with the F/A, and they came up with the Star Feed system. The Star Feed system came only on the Tippmann Factory F/A markers and used spring tension to load paintballs into the breech each time the bolt opened when a shot was fired. The paintballs rest in the gap of the star arm and as the bolt opens, the feeder turns one stepand loads a paintball into the breech.

The main problems were that the F/A had some timing issues with the delay sears and shocks so the marker could fall out of time and become a blender and everytime you filled the hopper, you had to turn a crank on the bottom of the Star Feed that wound the pring so the marker could fire another 150 rounds before doing it all over again. These problems were solved by Tippmann by linking the Star Feed to a gas powered piston and thus the Cyclone Feed System was born.

The cyclone Feed System works by directing a small portion of the excess blowback gas released by the CVX valve into a piston which forces the cyclone to turn one step. So each time you pull the trigger a paintball is force fed into the chamber and ready for firing again. No matter how fast you shoot, the cyclone loads the next ball just as fast. A common misconception about the Cyclone is that it sucks up extra gas, this is not true, the Cyclone requires a small amount of gas that is normally wasted in the normal operation of a Tippmann blow back.

The Cyclone main body is connected to the marker by a single bolt on the left and two guide pins on the right side and connected to the CVX valve via a valve tap and banjo fitting. There is also a cylinder that houses both the air piston that works the Cyclone and a manual feed knob that you use to force the first paintball into the breach at the beginning of a game.

As paintballs fall into the main feed body, they fall into one of five "star slots" that effectively pre-load the next five shots and keeps them in stand-bye to be fired, just like a gumball machine. As the trigger is pulled, the cyclone advances the "star" one step, forcing the next paintball into the chamber.

The Cyclone acts as a force-feed system, not just an agitating hopper and was factory tested to 16bps and it can handle every bit of that and then some, though you will have to get the Tippmann Reactive Trigger Kit or E-Grip as well as a good flowing High Pressure Air (HPA) tank to realize that potential. To see the A-5 RT w/HPA in action, CLICK HERE and then download the video.

Some of the earlier Cyclone Feed Systems could malfunction when used with HPA or in markers that cycled a ton of paint on a consistant basis, so Tippmann released a Cyclone Upgrade that fixes these problems and will install it free of charge if you send the marker to them or they'll send you the parts if you feel secure enough to install them yourself.

The hopper for the A-5 is a little different looking and has an odd flat face, but it functions just as well as any other hopper. There were reports of Early A-5s having hopper that would break if they took a direct hit from a paintball. These hoppers will be replaced by Tippmann for free if you do break one, and Tippmann has replaced the old plastic hopper with a stronger hopper made with thicker plastic on all new A-5s leaving the factory.

Now a lot of people have been yelling about the size of the cyclone system and how much larger it is that a "normal" hopper such as a Revolution or Evolution. But the facts are that the hopper has a lower profile and is tighter to the marker than any other marker on the market. The Hopper sits a full two inches lower on the A-5 than on a Model 98 with a Revolution on it. the hopper itself is smaller than a revy, only holding slightly more than 160 rounds, but the size difference is really telling. Check out the Cyclone Size Review, also on this reviews page, to see the pictures for yourself.

The Bolt System and Rate of Fire

At first glance, the A-5 seems to utilize the same bolt system as the M98 and M98c but that is far from the truth, A quick look at the rear bolt reveals that it's hollowed out and isn't the same as the rear bolt on the m98. The Rear bolt is just as strong as the m98 bolt, but it's slightly heavier. This heavier bolt is intended to stop the run-away trigger that the M98 had with the RT installed, but the rate of fire isn't effected. IN fact the A-5 can fire faster than the m98 because of the trigger system and the stream-lined design.

The recoil is only slightly heavier than that of the M98c and is barely noticeable for those used to non-electronic markers, however, the rate of fire is radically different.

Tippmann Factory Tested the M98 to 9bps and when they released the 98C, they addressed the complaints of M98 owners about how difficult it was to upgrade the marker and tweaked 11bps out of the 98C. With the A-5, the designers went all out and came up with a marker that can actually fling 15bps mechanically. They lightened the trigger pull and reduced the play in the A-5 trigger and that, combined with the re-designed bolt system, boosted the rate of fire into "high-end" territory.

Now, the average human finger can't pull the trigger 9 times a second, let alone 15, but the potential is there and can be fully recognized with an RT or E-Grip and other upgrades.

Field Stripping the A-5

One of the biggest gripes everyone had with the M98 and 98C series markers was how hard it was to strip down and clean. Even the precursor of the M98, the Pro Series markers, were easier to field strip and clean. The M98 cleaning process was a comlicated and tedious process, involving springs that liked to fly off in different directions and pins that liked to fall out.

The Pro Series markers had a rear sight that held the linkage arm down on both the front and rear bolt. You simply had to remove the rear sight, pop the linkage arm out, take the barrel off and remove the end cap and the rear bolt would come out and the front bolt would come out and you would clean the marker out.

The A-5 is like a mix of the two concepts, allowing you to strip the marker down in less than 60 seconds. Standard cleaning and maintenance can be done by turning the velocity screw all the way in and then pulling out four quick-pull pins, removing the grip and ASA adapter and pulling the entire valve system out of the marker. Though the A-5 is still a clam-shell design like the M98 and 98C, it can be stripped down and cleaned without completely disassembling the marker.

Everything in the A-5 is very modular in design. This becomes evident when fully disassembling the marker. We find that the entire trigger and sear system is a single self-contained part. No more springs flying everywhere when you strip the marker like there was with the M98 and 98C. The one-piece trigger assembly can be broken down easily for installation of a double-trigger or for maintenance sake.

You'll also notice that the A-5 utilizes a completely enclosed bolt system, meaning that there are no openings to the outside anywhere on this marker except the barrel and the breech. This improves on the design of all previous Tippmann markers which have a big hole in the rear-bolt area that allowed paint and dirt and other outside contaminants into the bolt system and that could result in wear and malfunction. The A-5 is completely closed off to the outside, making it harder for anything to get inside causing problems.

Upgrade Options

Out of the box, the A-5 features more upgrade options for the player than any previous Tippmann marker. Built into the valve system is a vertical Tombstone adapter which will accept any regulator or expansion chamber with standard threads. This eliminates the need to upgrade the M98 and 98C to accomplish the same thing. The A-5 also features a completely removable grip frame so switching to the E-grip of new J&J Performance 45 Style Grip frame is easy as pulling two pins and changing the bottomline ASA out.

The fore-grip can be moved about an inch forward or back or can be completely replaced with any number of aftermarket front grips, including an adapter by Lapco that allows you to mount the front grip at a 90 degree angle similar to the old British Sten Guns or, in paintball, the old SMG-60 and SMG-68s that Tippmann first made back at the very beginning. The front grip can also be completely removed if you so desire, quite unlike the foregrip on the M98 and M98c which is a part of the receiver body.

The ASA can be removed altogether and you can run vertical if you desire or you can get the Lapco universal adapter and use ANY drop forward you want.

Also worth mentioning is that the barrel threads of the A-5 are removable and exchangeable. The A-5 is shipped with a Pro-Carb barrel thread adapter which accepts almost all Pro-series barrels and well as most F-4 barrels, but if you want, you can get a series of aftermarket adapters that allow you to use spyder, m98 and other style barrels on your A-5.

Overall, the A-5 was built to be even easier to upgrade than the 98C which was released primarily due to demand for a easier-to-upgrade Tippmann marker than the M98. The kits that were supposedly "drop in" for the M98 and 98C are truly drop in kits for the A-5. The RT drops into the A-5 in less than 15 minutes if you are familiar with the marker and requires very little alteration to the grip in the removing of a single tab. The E-Grip can be installed in less than a minute. The A-5 Flatline comes as a one piece modular barrel system which twists on with a quarter turn and aligns itself to the marker easier than the old style M98 or 98C Flatline.

You can do just about anything to the A-5 that you can do to an M98 or 98C unless the product hasn't been released yet. The upgrades are coming out all the time so just be patient and you'll have everything you could possibly want to add to your A-5

Conclusion

In conclusion, the A-5 is the next evolution in the Tippmann line of markers. It corrects the majority of complaints players had with the M98 and 98C series markers, improves on the design and performance, and and does this without sacrificing any of the Tippmann reputation for building the most reliable and durable markers on the planet.

If you do find that you have a problem, Tippmann has the best customer service on the planet and you can count on them to solve it for you, often free of charge and often for the life of the marker. In fact, Take a SMG-60 to a Tippmann Trailer at a big game than they'll do everything that they can to make sure it works like new for you.

The A-5 out performs the M98c in every way and holds it's own against markers twice it's price.

Oh yes, the price. People are always griping about the price. Well, since it's release, the A-5 has gone from $350+ down to $225 for a stock A-5. They argue that the "A-5 is basically an M98" and "any M98 can be modified to function just like an A-5."

Let's face facts here. If you buy a Model 98 Custom ($125), a vertical adapter ($25), 12 volt Evo2 hopper ($85), a quick strip thumb screw set ($15), and a FullBoar rear cocking knob ($30), you're going to have spent $280+ and guess what, you still have the same bolt system and are still only going to get 9 to 11bps without further upgrades. You might as well save the extra $30 and get an A-5 which not only looks better, but also performs better and is easier to maintain.

And even A-5s with RTs are selling for around $269 now, so the price is coming down. Remember, everything new is more expensive than it should be and once they age a little the price drop inline.

The A-5 is a great High-mid-level marker that can grow with you as you grow as a player. It can hang with the "big dogs" out of the box, but with a little work, you can put together a truly awesome marker.

I hope this helps clear up some misconceptions about the A-5.


AKA the a-5 owns the 98c in every way ever ^_^



Posted By: Play Maker27
Date Posted: 27 August 2004 at 10:10am
^^ yeah what he said but shorter, the a-5 is better, thats why its more expensive... they basically took the 98c and made it 1000000x better

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Tippmann A-5
-E-Grip
-Unimount
-32* Remote
-Blade Trigger
-Redz Harness
-Flatline Barrel
-Palmers Stabalizer

Fund: 117/680


Posted By: 98c - baller
Date Posted: 27 August 2004 at 11:20am
umm not really, the only thing is really the cyclone feed

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Posted By: JJaxx
Date Posted: 28 August 2004 at 6:28pm
well i got my 98c and it is nice and accurate.  I'm getting a 14" J&J ceramic barrel for it.  and maybe a jcs stock not sure what style yet.  but i will eventualy get the a-5 w/ response in the future,  maybe when the price comes down.

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paint'em all, let the ref's sort them out!


Posted By: JJaxx
Date Posted: 28 August 2004 at 6:28pm
btw thanks for all the help.  i really like it.

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paint'em all, let the ref's sort them out!


Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 30 August 2004 at 12:09pm

The A-5 owns the 98 Custom?

Afraid not, kiddies ...

My 98 has NEVER EVER let me down, and the last two times I have taken the A-5 out for some full-contact paint brawling, it has taken a dump, and I went back to the 98.

I still like the A-5, but has thus far been far more high maintenance than I would have expected from a Tippmann product.

Oh, and BTW ... the Tippmann techs have had their hands on it twice, so sending it back to the factory isn't much of an option.



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If I attack, follow me

If I flee, kill me

If I die, avenge me



Posted By: Timmy Tango
Date Posted: 30 August 2004 at 9:36pm
A-5 all tha way they kick buty big time baller.
98custom's are good too BUT NOOOOO!!! get that A-5

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Tippmann a-5
Flatline
car stock
swatforce red dot
raised sight rail
micro cap
to be added:
m249 stock
sling
harris bipod
laser kit
weaver rail shroud
mag kit
r/t
total support!!!




Posted By: hwayhzrd
Date Posted: 31 August 2004 at 8:36am

Originally posted by Timmy Tango Timmy Tango wrote:

A-5 all tha way they kick buty big time baller.
98custom's are good too BUT NOOOOO!!! get that A-5

Well, heck, that did it for me!



Posted By: Hemi Charger 42
Date Posted: 31 August 2004 at 11:17am
id say 98c, had mine for a little over 5 years, works like a charm, only gun ive ever owned in my life. and they r cheaper, so ud have alot more money to spend on ups if u wanted to, or just have about 100 extra bucks to do whatever


Posted By: roadrunner0535
Date Posted: 31 August 2004 at 11:29am
98c...u can't beat it...cheaper upgrades(except e-bolt) more upgrades...u don't need special barrels or a stock hopper...don't have that big bulky cyclone feed on the side sticking out like 2 1/2 feet

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98c seclusion
14" dye ultralite
rufus dawg 2x stick trigg
remote
full-auto mod
http://roadrunnerpaintball.mypicgallery.com/mpg/Route.asp - My 98C
100% smart parts


Posted By: whack-a-mole
Date Posted: 31 August 2004 at 3:47pm
98c it works like a charm

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NASA and the Americans spent millions of dollars and hundreds of hours to develop a pen that would write in space.....The Russians used a pencil.


Posted By: GiLroY
Date Posted: 04 September 2004 at 8:04pm

id go with a 98.

 



Posted By: TheOperators
Date Posted: 05 September 2004 at 1:13am

I own a 98c and A-5 both with flatline and both with stocks, no extra fire power upgrades just a good elec. hopper for the 98c and a nice expansion chamber, and they both work excellent so long as you use good paint, they have both there advantages and disadvatages i guess, but IMO i would go with an A-5, its basiccly a 98c with all the kinks worked out, but don't get me wrong i will always love my 98c she held me through thick and thin, and she still gets me 1 shot 1 kills.

Matt

TheOperators



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"Those who fear being conquered, are sure of defeat"

"The most deadly thing on the battlefield is one well-aimed shot."


Posted By: autolepercon
Date Posted: 05 September 2004 at 1:51pm
UM i say the a-5 i own a 98 but i know the a-5 is better just get the a-5 dude cuz u wont need to buy an electro hopper cuz the stock hopper with the a-5 can already feed fast as heck.


Posted By: autolepercon
Date Posted: 05 September 2004 at 1:51pm
plus upgradeing the a-5 is easier u can just take off the grip frame off the a-5 but u have to open the entire 98 just to change stuff



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