well the hop up barrel doesnt force the ball to spin like the flatline does (forcing the ball to rub against the top of the barrel to create the back spin) what the hop up does is that it has 3 groves cut in the top of the barrel letting air to pass the ball causeing greater air pressure at the bottom of the ball causing the ball to spin.  now what does all that babble mean you ask?? it just allows for a greater exit velocity from the barrel of the hop up.  in about a 120ft shot it made 17 out of 20 shots in a 8-12 in spread.  the flatline at around 130ft was 12 out of 20 in a 10-14 spread.  the WS-66 requires a little bit more maintence than the tippy. but if your too lazy to take the 15 min to clean and lube your gun after you use it thats kinda bad.  one other great thing about this gun is that it works better with Co2 than it does HPA so no need in spending the xtra money on that.

PS the gun in the picture is not my gun mine is a bit more simple w/o all the scopes and **edited**.

So its a Warsensor wit the hop up barrel, whoopie!

But remember this, there isnt much upgardes fer it, except maintaining it.

Oh, I wouldn't say that...

Just a quick list of what's there:

• 4x32 Bushnell scope
• Tri-rail scope ring kit
• Elite sight rail
• Laseraim Illuminator red dot sight
• Laser sight (purely for looks and helped getting the sights set in)
• R.I.S. handgaurds
• Barrel extension
• R.I.S. mounted bi-pod
• Composite bolt
• Palmer female regulator (can't see it since it is in the grass)
• Tac sling

Pretty much if you're looking for the M-4 look I don't know what else you'd need.  After all, anything that will go on an M-4 will just about fit this.  All it needs is a weaver attachment. The barrel works great as is and rivals the Flatline.  So if someone is looking for a mil-sim alternative, this is it.

However, while it is a very hardy marker, you do have to maintain it.  Tippmanns are much more forgiving when it comes to lax maintenance habits.  That and finding parts for Tippmanns are much easier too. 

Certainly wouldn't go so far as to say Flatlines are in trouble though...

fishsticks wrote: why do you need 3 spotting devices? kinda seems like needless overkill.

Maybe its because hes a 3 eyed alien

evil_fingers wrote: Maybe its because hes a 3 eyed alien

lol..

How much would that gun weigh?.. ~50lbs?

Well, the barrel is already perfect for the marker, no need to update that.  The bolt is upgraded, it is a composite affair.  There is a regulator on the marker as well, also a performance upgrade.  There is also an E-trigger available for the marker that I have not gotten and more likely won't as it isn't necessary for the kinds of games I play with this marker. I haven't tried messing with the valve yet since it works well for what I use it for.

And as for all that being useless, well it just depends on what you play I guess.  In the scenario games I play or out in the woods, I use all that stuff.  The scope is for scouting and some aiming duties (but very rarely), the red dot is what I mainly aim with when given the time, and as I said before (but apparently was overlooked) the laser is mainly there for the looks.  R.I.S. makes the marker easier to carry and a bit more robust.  Bi-pod is useful during my scouting excursions as it reduces fatigue.  I have had games where I've used all three.  And, as usual, I'm sure all of you making comments on this have TRIED this and thus are basing your opinions on first hand experiance, right?

If I'm playing more of a speedball game, I use this...

A realatively new marker but they are working on bringing out some upgrades for it like composite bolts, bottomline, e-trigger, barrels, et all.  It still feels long to me for speedball so a collapsible stock will also be going on there to shorten it up.

Robotech - I don't think we'd need to use that gun to know that it's heavy.  Common sense tells us that.  If it shoots nicely for you then great.

CSestp - nice mouth.  Try going to http://www.dictionary.com - www.dictionary.com .

This is absolutely true but that comment was not directed toward the weight of the marker, rather that the items that have been added were useless. My apologies for not clarifying that.

No, this sucker weighs in at well over 10 pounds.  However, hence the sling and I'm not exactly what you'd call a small guy.  The weight isn't so much of an issue for me and how I play.  When I play a style of game where I need a lighter weight marker, that is when I bring out that other maker.  I know there are markers out there lighter than it's 4 lbs, but after carrying that WS-66 around the 4 lbs feels like 4 oz. LOL 

I don't want to make this into a "My marker is better than your marker" kind of thread, just wanted to post my experiance with this marker. It certainly isn't for everyone and has its own specialized niche in the sport of paintball.

Krustee wrote: Robotech - I don't think we'd need to use that gun to know that it's heavy.  Common sense tells us that.  If it shoots nicely for you then great. CSestp - nice mouth.  Try going to http://www.dictionary.com - www.dictionary.com .

hey dude while im learning to spell at http://www.dictionary.com - www.dictionary.com why dont you go to http://www.dontbea**edited**.com - www.dontbea**edited**.com , just desided to shair something new to everyone. i am someone who has owned a tippmann 98c with the flatline for a couple years and i know how much i liked it when i had it but as time went on i saw how it simply wasnt that accurate. no its not the MOST inaccurate barrel out there but it isnt the most accurate ether.  this barrel is almost = to the flatline in range but so many times better in accuracy.  thats all

CSestp, I don't know where the anger comes from...but take it easy man.  You're posts are kind of hard to read and while he may have been uhhhmmmm...a bit patronizing by his post he has a point. 

Also, from what I've seen and experianced the WS-66 has range EQUAL to the Flatline, not almost and yes, it does maintain its accuracy that far out. 

However, you also pay for this increased accuracy at range as well and as was mentioned before, the WS-66 isn't for everyone.  Hence why I really don't think Tippmann and the Flatline have much to worry about.  It's kind of like saying Ford's Taurus is in trouble because a Ferrari is faster...a Ferrari isn't for everyone.

CSestp wrote: hey dude while im learning to spell at http://www.dictionary.com - www.dictionary.com why dont you go to http://www.dontbea**edited**.com - www.dontbea**edited**.com , just desided to shair something new to everyone....blah blah blah

Well, you've managed to inundate your first three posts with foul language and misspellings.  See that little button with the "ABC" and check mark?  It's there for a reason.  While you would like to share your opinion with a community, it's proven that a person who uses foul language and has poor grammar and spelling skills is perceived as uneducated and ignorant.  So while the actual information that you're trying to share may be useful and factual, it typically will go unnoticed or be ignored because of the perception you have given your audience.  If you'd like people to take you a little more seriously and listen to what you have to say, try putting just a little more time and tact into your writing.

Pardon my ignorance. So it seems Amotech, Ariakon, and WarSensor are all basically making the same guns, out of different locations? I know Amotech and Ariakon just settled a lawsuit, but where does WarSensor fit in the mix?

I love Tippmann, they will always be #1 to me, however I have periodically considered getting one of these B.A. looking markers for the collection. But, I have heard they shoot like a cheap Spyder, which is a bit discouraging.

Oh, and kids, let's try to remain CIVIL, these forums are related to a GAME.

Great post CSestp...takes a big person to back down like that.  I can't spell to save my life either (and was a history major in school to boot).  The spell check on here is pretty easy to use once you download it and it makes a world of difference when you post.  One click, change a few letters, and viola!

Oldschool...I'd almost be willing to bet $10 that the people who told you these markers shoot no better than cheap Spyder clones have never shot one.  At best, they shot the VERY early production WG-65s which did have some teething issues.  Those issues have since been resolved.  The Ariakon line is very different from the Armotech/Warsensor line.  It is just all three are replicas of the real deal so they will look alike.  However, I'll try to explain.

Ariakon use to be the US distributor for Armotech.net, the parent company of Armotech.us.  Ariakon did business under the URL Armotech.com.  When Armotech.net, the parent company, decided to change US distributors, Ariakon needed to produce a product to stay in business, the SIM-4. 

Now, I won't go into the lawsuit stuff but suffice to say that the WG-65 is an Armotech product, the SIM-4 is a Ariakon product, and the WS-66 is a Warsensor product.  To me, the WG-65 is the outdated marker and the marker that the SIM-4 and WS-66 both evolved from. 

The SIM-4 is a very different design and if you want to see how different, check out their site.  The SIM-4 uses different barrel threads, internals, and the receiver is completely different as well.  One nice thing about the SIM-4 is that the cocking mechanism is enclosed keeping it safe from dirt.  The WG-65 is not. 

The WS-66 is an evolution of the WG-65.  Like the SIM-4 the WS series has an enclosed cocking mechanism. It also comes with the simulated clip and bottom line, something that is extra on the WG series and non-existent for the SIM series (the clip kit that is, the bottom line is available).  In addition, it features the hop up barrel which, as has been mentioned, gives you distance on par with a Flatline but with improved accuracy. As far as Warsensor's relation to Armotech, they are and yet are not the same company.  They are sister companies.  The owner of Warsensor is the Brother of the owner of Armotech.  Hence why they share a lot of technology. 

As for them being cheap, poor shooting Spyder clones...not true.  My WS, with a Palmer Reg and shooting Chronic paint, is VERY accurate.  I have been in games and have been approached afterward about how straight the marker shoots.  In one game, I had someone hiding behind an elevated building about 175 feet away (we were on opposite ends of Iraq, a field out at SC Village here in So. Cal).  I could see his feet so I knew when he was walking toward one side of the building or the other.  I'd start firing to time it so that the balls would arrive just as he started to come around the corner.  Those rounds, 175 feet away, were flying within 6" of the side of that building shot after shot after shot.  That game I provided cover fire and direction for that entire side of the field.  And yes, during that game I dueled with Flatlines on the other side of that field...that's how I know the WS is on par with their range. The difference was I was in the open and not driven to cover by their fire as they were by mine...whether this is the marker or the shooter I don't know. 

If you pick up one of these markers you will be very happy with it.  Very rarely do you see a WS up on e-bay that is used.  All the ones that I see on there are new ones being sold by dealers. If you check the Ariakon or Armotech forums you'll see a lot of Tippmann owners that have switched over to the WS/WG/SIM markers and they can tell you better than I what they think of them.  Also, on the Ariakon forum there is a great comparison one of the members did between the 98, A-5 and SIM-4. 

Also, for reliability, my WS has never let me down except for one time when I did a stupid thing to it by trying to modify the valve pin (hey, live and learn right?).  Also, through about 8,000 + rounds (currently on my 5th case) I have only broken three balls...one when the detent wasn't properly set and twice more when I started to run out of air and the marker did it's little BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPP thing.  That was within the first case of paint.  In the last three + cases, not a single break.

I know this is a little long winded, but I hope I covered this pretty well.  Again, these markers are not for everyone and if you are just starting out in Paintball the Tippmanns make a GREAT first marker...nothing is as easy to maintain as a Tippmann.  But with a little TLC (it is pretty easy to care for these markers and it is something you SHOULD do, even with a Tippmann) these are very reliable markers that perform very well.

The marker that you see at the beginning of this thread is about that...$490.

The standard WS-66 without the scope and all is around the $440 mark.

A SIM-4 is about the same.

A SIM-15, which is a stripped down version of the SIM-4 but shares the same design characteristics, is about $265. 

Dude, so true!  Variety is the spice of life.  This is my other new baby...

Just finished getting the stock on today and making it work.  Yes, it is .68 cal.

As for them making hop ups for other markers, to my knowledge they have no plans to do it.  The way the barrel is attached would make it very difficult to have it be a threaded barrel design and have the grooves line up where they are supposed to be.

i dont think you can but if you did it would be very hard to put it on any gun.  it doesnt thread onto the gun its held on by a pin, like the field strip pin on a kingman or something.

Yes, that's just an Airsoft stock that has been modified to fit the marker.  The WG (if that's the other site you're talking about) will take an airsoft stock without modification.  That's one reason why the receiver has that stacked 3 tube look. 

Yes you can buy the barrel seperately.  As was mentioned though, it uses a strip pin set up to go on the marker.  I'm thinking some type of adaptor could work.

Purrrsian wrote: i wonder if they will start making the hop-up barrels for other guns

They wont, the hop-up is only meant fer the Warsensor's only, jus like the Flatline is fer the A5 and the 98c.

And if they did have the hop-up fer other markers, we all wouldve seen them on the market.

evil_fingers wrote: They wont, the hop-up is only meant fer the Warsensor's only, jus like the Flatline is fer the A5 and the 98c.

they have flatlines on autocockers

and im sure that someone could engrave threads on the barrel or something to make it fit other guns

Purrrsian wrote: evil_fingers wrote: They wont, the hop-up is only meant fer the Warsensor's only, jus like the Flatline is fer the A5 and the 98c. they have flatlines on autocockers and im sure that someone could engrave threads on the barrel or something to make it fit other guns

Thats true there is an autococker that has the Flatline barrel but, its not a Tippmann Flatline barrel....and also, its no longer on the market, due to being so extremely ugly lookin aka "the ugly duckling in the paintball community"

1. flaltine had betta spread
2. they were shot from further distances away

3. we're relying on your marksmanship (could be bad, could be good)

4. Factor in wind/climate changes/ ball-to-bore size, and ball quality

5. also put in the factor that u just spent over 400 for ur gun so you will obvoisly make stuff up to make it sound betta

6. if a cop ever cought you in woods with that, you'd be laying on the ground, paramedics trying to revive you

7. how far can it shoot, obvoisly less than tippmann sow hats the point

8.  you want a real gun, join the military...